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Started By
Message
re: SECNAV is either too stupid or naive to be SECNAV
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:36 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:36 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I don't believe you, with all due respect.
Because you choose not to. Well within your right.
However, I'm telling you the night of the 30th we were told no help was coming. And people had resign to the fact we had to fend for ourselves. The morning of 1 April when we woke up, and the letter was everywhere. And then we got word that GovGuam and the hotel group was meeting that afternoon to discuss emergent planning.
I would say this...when SECNAV said in his statement that the CO letter caused panic on the boat that was a lie. The letter renewed hope.
2
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:39 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
The military has ceased all movement convos and oconus. It’s a shite show from the highest levels to the lowest levels with no guidance directions, and decision making.
This much is true. I'm stationed in the capital region and it's crazy just how big of a shitshow this all has been. I've never seen anything like it and likely never will again.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:40 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
Has anyone on the ship passed away as yet? A group of people primarily in their 20’s isn’t exactly part of the high risk population
Hopefully none have or will pass.
Hopefully none have or will pass.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:40 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
If you can't bear the thought of losing your men, you can't command them in combat.
Period.
We were in combat with an enemy (virus) but no resources. What senior staff sends a commander into combat with no weapons?
quote:
I don't know you, sir, but I've probably forgotten more about military history than you can imagine
Then are fully aware that ironically, Teddy Roosevelt did the exact same things as Capt Crozier did.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:46 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
Has anyone on the ship passed away as yet? A group of people primarily in their 20’s isn’t exactly part of the high risk population
Hopefully none have or will pass
Thankfully, no one has passed. We have had people we some days worse than others but no clear calls yet.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:47 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
If you can't bear the thought of losing your men, you can't command them in combat.
This is not at all relevant. This is about being non-mission capable with no plan in sight. Shipment and sailors not able to execute their duties and responsibilities due to mandated restrictions regarding COVID. How you came away with someone not being able to bear the thought of losing their men is beyond me.
quote:
If those concerns cause you to ignore basics like operational security, then it is.
Let’s hear the OPSEC he specifically violated. He CC’d staff members, a common practice for transparency on issues that aren’t being remedied. If we are firing leaders for CCing staff members, not sure how many leaders the military will have left.
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:50 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
quote:
However, I'm telling you the night of the 30th we were told no help was coming
So, you're telling me that the Secretary of the Navy told a U.S. aircraft carrier that there was no help coming?
Or was it that the specific help requested wasn't available right now?
Because I can believe the latter, to a degree. The former doesn't make sense. The only measurable conventional combat power the USN has is the CVNs (and whatever cruise missiles you can muster).
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:51 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Let’s hear the OPSEC he specifically violated.
Let's start with the obvious - the memo should have been classified AT LEAST Confidential, but likely Secret.
How's that?
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:53 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
his much is true. I'm stationed in the capital region and it's crazy just how big of a shitshow this all has been. I've never seen anything like it and likely never will again.
And you were able to go home at the end of the day.
Now imagine that shitshow...on a vessel...out to sea. Then you pull into port and you cant even disembarked...
I've done multiple tours in the building so I understand the NCR bubble...it can be hard to grasp how some things effect operational forces. This situation was dire and miscalculated. Like you said, a shitshow
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:53 pm to Ace Midnight
Sounds like Trump is going to let this Captain stay in the game.
Trump is talking about building a new hospital ship.
He should give this captain the new hospital ship. Would be glorious.
Trump is talking about building a new hospital ship.
He should give this captain the new hospital ship. Would be glorious.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:54 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Let's start with the obvious - the memo should have been classified AT LEAST Confidential, but likely Secret.
How's that?
Says who? You have an intelligence source? Based on what I know from your post history you spent exactly zero days as intel while you served. Run with that narrative if you would like though.
Eta: let’s also fire every single military member who shared the memo. Not hard to trace and trust me, many military leaders shared that memo on unclass. But you and everyone else knows this isn’t about “classified” information
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:55 pm to fatheadgator
Why does it matter what he said? Military chain of command is what it is and the guy broke from that. It is in the 10 Commandments of Military Operations NOT TO DO THAT.
Why should anyone care what someone said about the guy? I certainly do not.
Why should anyone care what someone said about the guy? I certainly do not.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:55 pm to Royal Tiger Fan
quote:
And you were able to go home at the end of the day.
Now imagine that shitshow...on a vessel...out to sea. Then you pull into port and you cant even disembarked...
I've done multiple tours in the building so I understand the NCR bubble...it can be hard to grasp how some things effect operational forces. This situation was dire and miscalculated. Like you said, a shitshow
This is why I hate we're at odds. I can feel your anxiety and completely sympathize with your situation - I was in uniform, at the Superdome immediately after Katrina passed.
So, I know it is fricked up on many levels. Again, Godspeed and the best of luck.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:57 pm to Ollieoxenfree99
quote:
Why does it matter what he said? Military chain of command is what it is and the guy broke from that
I agree. So then why does the acting secnav feel the need to address the ship about it, and so unprofessional at that
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:58 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
Says who?
Says classification guidelines.
You don't think information regarding the lack of combat readiness of a deployed carrier isn't, per se, classified?
If you actually believe that, I don't know what to tell you.
quote:
Based on what I know from your post history you spent exactly zero days as intel while you served.
I was in that business at a very low level, a lifetime ago. But, the principles do not change.
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:58 pm to fatheadgator
Trump admin has been a shite show from start to finish. Whether it ends in a few months or 4 more years we will all be much better off when it does.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 5:59 pm to 13SaintTiger
quote:
So then why does the acting secnav feel the need to address the ship about it, and so unprofessional at that
I give him kudos (as I told LB) - he relieved the guy, so he went in person to explain the decision. He didn't get the CNO, the fleet or CSG to explain it. He swung the sword, he explained it to the men.
He used strong language, but that was probably called for.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:01 pm to Ace Midnight
Trump should just give this captain command of the new hospital ship he is building and call it a day
Trump said he does not want to destroy an otherwise exemplary career for a guy having a bad day.
Trump said he does not want to destroy an otherwise exemplary career for a guy having a bad day.
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:02 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
He used strong language,
Of course he did. It's the GD military. Do people not know how the military works?
Granted, they have to let trans and gay people in, and now have to watch how loudly they yell at boot camp trainees bc everyone is a snowflake, but it is not a fun club, folks.
This post was edited on 4/6/20 at 6:03 pm
Posted on 4/6/20 at 6:03 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I give him kudos (as I told LB) - he relieved the guy, so he went in person to explain the decision. He didn't get the CNO, the fleet or CSG to explain it. He swung the sword, he explained it to the men.
A guy that all of those shipmen and sailors don’t give 2 shits about, have had zero interactions with, and someone who at the end of the day makes all final decisions. There is nothing brave about that. If he opened up the forum and decided to hear the men out and listen to what they had to say, then yea I’d say that deserves kudos but all he did was make things worse. He’s made it more of a thing than necessary, it was pompous and stupid.
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