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re: SCOTUS - Oral Argument in Jackson Abortion Case begins 9:00 Central - Link to Audio

Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:24 am to
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
167343 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:24 am to
quote:

Dobbs abortion case threatens Democrats' house of cards

LINK

There is one thing that every serious legal scholar, regardless of his or her opinion on abortion, can agree on: The 1973 Supreme Court ruling in Roe v. Wade is a goofy ad hoc abomination of a legal decision. Don't take our word for it — take the word of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who called it a "heavy-handed judicial intervention" and "difficult to justify."

Roe removed the issue of abortion from the democratic process. It also created a new right to kill one's baby in utero. In deciding Roe, Justice Harry Blackmun and the Roe court set out to create a new version of women's equality that the original suffragists would have soundly rejected. They did not care what sort of shoddy reasoning they needed to get there, and it really shows.

The abortion case that will be argued before the justices today, Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health, offers them an opportunity to revisit Roe and its progeny — cases that have caused the United States to depart dramatically and unjustifiably from the civilized world when it comes to abortion laws.

Dobbs pertains to a Mississippi law limiting abortion to the first 15 weeks of pregnancy. For context, this law is still among the world's least restrictive. Three-quarters of the world's nations, including most of Western Europe, ban abortion after 12 weeks — i.e., the first trimester. Consider that if Mississippi's law is allowed to stand, the Magnolia State will still have abortion laws looser than France. Meanwhile, only seven nations in the entire world, including the U.S., currently permit elective abortions after 20 weeks of gestation, as Roe and subsequent decisions have permitted.

To provide still more context, Democrats in several states have proposed laws to permit abortion right up to the moment of birth. They can still pass such laws even if Roe is overturned. But wouldn't it be a bit barbaric?

Polls show that most people, regardless of their position on abortion's legality in principle, support reasonable restrictions such as the one Mississippi is defending. For example, 65% believe that abortion should be illegal after 12 weeks, i.e. after the first trimester, according to a new poll from the Associated Press . This is a typical poll result. If people had been allowed to vote on this issue since the 1970s, laws in states where abortion is legal would probably look a lot like Mississippi's. That, in addition to the specious legal reasoning behind the original ruling, is a sufficient reason for abolishing Roe and letting the voters decide.

Outside the legal realm, Roe's legacy has been to make 62 million abortions possible over 48 years. Not only is that greater than the populations of California and Florida combined, but it skews with nearly genocidal disproportion toward the destruction of nascent black lives. According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data, approximately 21 million non-Hispanic black lives have been extinguished directly by abortion since Roe. In some heavily black jurisdictions, such as Washington, D.C., more than one-third of all pregnancies end in termination. This is not inconsistent with the racist views of abortion pioneers such as Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger.

The Left has convinced itself that abortion is popular — that people will angrily come out and vote to defend it. That didn't happen last month in blue Virginia. Democratic gubernatorial nominee Terry McAuliffe spent millions telling voters that his opponent would sign a restrictive abortion law like the one that had just taken effect in Texas. Exit polling shows that the voters who voted based on abortion actually broke for the Republican, Gov.-elect Glenn Youngkin, by 20 points.
This post was edited on 12/1/21 at 11:27 am
Posted by HubbaBubba
North of DFW, TX
Member since Oct 2010
51843 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:36 am to
quote:

That moment was when I realized the depths of depravity of Soltamayor
She was not placed there due to her having some sort of legal brilliance, so not surprised at all by her remarks.
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
17294 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:37 am to
quote:

the Constitution's silence on the issue itself should be a slam dunk for allowing states themselves to determine the legality/availability of abortion services by virtue of the 10A.


I agree with you.

But Roberts is a moral and intellectual coward. Never underestimate his ability to figuratively, or in this case, literally, split the baby.

Ironically- I think the Departed RBG would have sided with ACB on the stare decisis point, even tho she was on the court (i think) when Casey was decided. She has said in other settings that the Roe precedent was unworkable.

I think the true victory for the pro-life movement would be a recognition of due process rights of the unborn baby. If they can get there, any other argument made by the Death Lady falls apart. Roe would be buried in the dustbin of history. It would be fundamentally the same as the recognition that due process rights belonging to all people, as when Plessy was overruled by Brown. I think Roe violated Brown’s precedent when it was handed down.

Soltamayor and all her stupidity was chastising Mississippi’s lawyer for not being able to point to another basis other than religion for saying that conception is the point at which we have due process rights. But then wouldn’t let him answer. I can Think of other examples where due process rights begin at conception -

Ex. Scott Peterson murdering his unborn child, you have a right to inherit if your father dies before you were born.

There’s no basis in logic or science, much less spiritually to say that life begins at any other time.

Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
77631 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:41 am to
Excellent point. If a pregnant woman's death in an at-fault accident can result in vehicular manslaughter charges due to loss of multiple human lives in even the bluest of states, then the left's viability argument is proven to be just a tool of convenience to justify the continued practice of abortion.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
77631 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:43 am to
Additionally, libs defending their child sacrifice sacrament have yet to be able to define that magical transubstantiation at which point their "clump of cells" invariably turns into a baby human.

Typically the rhetorical divide depends on whether or not the pregnancy is wanted.
Posted by Veritas
Member since Feb 2005
10851 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 11:49 am to
Nvm
This post was edited on 12/1/21 at 11:50 am
Posted by tiger91
In my own little world
Member since Nov 2005
40228 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:17 pm to
Casey — can anyone briefly explain?
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
14304 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:28 pm to
LINK to twitter video


Video of some insane women taking abortion pills outside the supreme court as some sort of protest.

This is the level of evil we are up against
This post was edited on 12/1/21 at 12:28 pm
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
14304 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:32 pm to
Choose your side



Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
167343 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:33 pm to
Posted by tommy2tone1999
St. George, LA
Member since Sep 2008
7795 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:36 pm to
They're back in session
Posted by cajunangelle
Member since Oct 2012
167343 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:38 pm to
In general I think the Gosnell Babies killed LINK reframed the political perception of abortion. Where it was a right and settled.
Posted by olemissfan26
MS
Member since Apr 2012
6968 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

Video of some insane women taking abortion pills outside the supreme court as some sort of protest.


These are the clowns Roberts is scared to upset.
Posted by TS1926
Alabama
Member since Jan 2020
8038 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 12:42 pm to
You could remove all the signs, and bar the letters on the shirts, from both groups - just picture comparisons and I could accurately pick which group represented pro life and which group pro abortion just on personal appearances alone.
This post was edited on 12/1/21 at 12:43 pm
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
17294 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 1:07 pm to
quote:

Casey — can anyone briefly explain?


I'll re-read- but to summarize what I remember from Con Law in Law School:

Roe v. Wade was obviously the original case that recognized a right to have an abortion. Roe v. Wade was based on a right to something about pneumbras (it legitimately was pulled out of thin air). In a breathtaking display of moral and intellectual relativism, Roe engaged in balancing the "state's interest in prohibiting abortions" against the "woman's right to bodily autonomy/privacy." Roe essentially concluded that with each passing trimester the woman's right to have an abortion became more outweighned by the state's interest to have one. Roe wanted her abortion in the first trimester or at some point early in it, so the Court found the state could not outlaw her abortion. The Court did not decide at what point in pregnancy the State could pass laws prohibiting abortions, it just basically said at some point in the pregnancy a State Law couldn't prohibit abortions.

A shite show followed. Along with the "life begins at conception" argument (which shouldn't really be an argument to anyone who understands the birds and the bees).

At some point in the late 80s/early 90s, Casey v. Planned Parenthood was decided. Casey dealth with a law that required parental consent when a minor wanted to have an abortion, and husband consent when a married woman wanted an abortion- I'm not sure the specifics beyond that.

Casey held that prior to the point of viability outside the womb, the state could not place an "undue burden" on the fundamental right to abortions, and that requiring either parental or husband's consent would place an undue burden on it bc the veto power of someone else besides the pregnant woman (I REFUSE TO CALL HER A MOTHER) would decide whether the woman could abort her baby.

After "viability" Casey held that presumably a state could pass a law burdening abortions or eliminating them (late term abortions could be banned consitutionally).

Mississippi's point is that the "viability" rule in Casey makes no sense. The Mississippi statute prohibits abortions after 15 wks, that's no more or less supported in the constitution that prohibiting abortions after viability. They argue that the Court determining the point at which an abortion stops being ok is not the way to run the railroad. A legislature (which is meant to listen to the will of the people), should instead state the point at which an abortion stops being ok - and that point is going to be different depending on whether you live in California, Mississippi, Alabama or New York.




Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
24001 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

at which point their "clump of cells" invariably turns into a baby human.

Genetically that is at conception.
Posted by tiger91
In my own little world
Member since Nov 2005
40228 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 5:01 pm to
Thanks for the replies.

Now, why does it take until June?

What happens? Do they discuss? Think about it? Read? Pray about it? Twiddle their thumbs (some will)?

How do they actually “vote”?
Posted by HubbaBubba
North of DFW, TX
Member since Oct 2010
51843 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 5:13 pm to
Get those girls in black in a private situation and you're likely to get...

Posted by Kino74
Denham springs
Member since Nov 2013
5360 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

including the U.S., currently permit elective abortions after 20 weeks of gestation, as Roe and subsequent decisions have permitted.


Little known fact but only five countries allow abortions pass 24 weeks. They are the US, Canada, Vietnam, North Korea and China.
Posted by Oates Mustache
Member since Oct 2011
26623 posts
Posted on 12/1/21 at 5:41 pm to
So did the justices hear new evidence/science regarding when life begins?
This post was edited on 12/1/21 at 5:42 pm
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