Started By
Message

re: Science is debunking itself again

Posted on 9/21/23 at 1:49 am to
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
33359 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 1:49 am to
quote:

I guess that depends on what "we thought."

No it doesnt

Gene mutation is not random. Never has been. Its very specific in what is allowed to mutate

UC Davis study
quote:

Quick Summary

* DNA mutations are not random
* These findings change our understanding of evolution

quote:

The findings, published today in the journal Nature, radically change our understanding of evolution

“We always thought of mutation as basically random across the genome,” said Grey Monroe, an assistant professor in the UC Davis Department of Plant Sciences who is lead author on the paper. “It turns out that mutation is very non-random and it’s non-random in a way that benefits the plant. It’s a totally new way of thinking about mutation.”

“The areas that are the most biologically important are the ones being protected from mutation.” The findings add a surprising twist to Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection because it reveals that the plant has evolved to protect its genes from mutation to ensure survival. The plant evolved to protect itself

Pretty much confirms that a species will allow microevolution, but resist macroevolution in order to protect its DNA structure, You cant get from a chimp to a human if the species "protects its genes from mutation to ensure survival". Thats why there would be no fossil record.

And that theory has also been proven
quote:

New UC Davis Research Using DNA, Changes Origin of Human Species

New model for human evolution suggests Homo sapiens arose from multiple closely related populations

Recent UC Davis study on how lack of fossils limits changes across species
quote:

researchers have uncovered a new model of human evolution — overturning previous beliefs that a single African population gave rise to all humans.

* This uncertainty is due to limited fossil and ancient genomic data, and to the fact that the fossil record does not align with modern DNA
* This new research changes the origin of species
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135604 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 5:25 am to
quote:

Show me the fossil record of discrete incremental steps
Ah, you want certain proof, rather than distinct probability.

Assuming those incremental life forms did exist at one point, what would be the probability that an example of each exists in the fossil record now? and if such a record did exist, it would render evolution something more than theory, would it not?

FTR, I certainly can cite convincing evolutionary fossil sequences, in horses for example, complete with living examples of progressive transition in donkeys and zebra.

But in more general terms, we know there have been at least 5 mass extinctions over Earth's history. Each eliminated >75% of existing species at the time. In one instance, the Permian Extinction, 96% of species disappeared.

In each instance, new and arguably more advanced life replaced the lost species. Where did the new species come from?

Further, why are sabertoothed cats extinct while their later evolving big cat relatives survive? Why aren't modern beavers the 8ft behemoths the once were.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135604 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 5:38 am to
quote:

Life does not work that way.
But it does.
You don't believe horses, zebras, and donkeys originated from a common ancestor?

Dogs and wolves?

Lions and tigers?

Darwin's finches?
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
48081 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 5:56 am to
fixed and precise sequence of events that followed the Big Bang

no such thing

they only claim that they have a good model for what happened after the first 380,000 years after the Big Bang.

What happened in that first third of the first million years is still a mystery.

The discovery of the previously unseen galaxies is a tribute to the precision of the "deep field' concentration of the JW mission.

It is an ACHIEVEMENT that allows more precise study - not 'debunking' anything.

There is a generally accepted definition of the word 'theory' - you should check it out.
This post was edited on 9/21/23 at 6:51 am
Posted by dafif
Member since Jan 2019
7920 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 6:45 am to
quote:

You don't believe horses, zebras, and donkeys originated from a common ancestor? Dogs and wolves?


Of course dogs came from wolves as we domesticated and intentionally bred them.

I still cannot get a rational explanation as to the birth of a man in an ape family where they would have nurtured and raised that child to adulthood and then allowed that difference to procreate with one of theirs . Over and over and over.

Nature does not work that way. That is like saying homosexuality is a part of nature - it isn't.
Posted by Squirrelmeister
Member since Nov 2021
3373 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 6:56 am to
quote:

evolution….. will all eventually get their debunking.


Posted by Herooftheday
Member since Feb 2021
3830 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 6:59 am to
quote:

Nature does not work that way.


You're going to break things in their minds with statements like that. They only have a few sturdy brain connections.
Posted by Squirrelmeister
Member since Nov 2021
3373 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:01 am to
quote:

It is amusing that science relies on measurement and reason but the entire theory is based on one big miracle where everything came from nothing.


You’ve not researched the topic even once, and your ignorance is on display. Big Bang theory does not claim everything came from nothing. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

It is religious creation myth “Ex Nihilo” where a magic superhuman in the sky creates everything from nothing.
Posted by Herooftheday
Member since Feb 2021
3830 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:08 am to
quote:

Big Bang theory does not claim everything came from nothing


All matter to ever exist came from a singular point. They don't have the slightest reason to believe that except that they suspect everything seems to be moving away from a point. But they don't really know any of that. Speculation

quote:


It is religious creation myth “Ex Nihilo” where a magic superhuman in the sky creates everything from nothing


First of all, it's not magic. Second, God isn't human by any stretch of the imagination.
Posted by oklahogjr
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
40237 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:18 am to
quote:

Nature does not work that way. That is like saying homosexuality is a part of nature - it isn't.


While studies show you would regret it a biology degree would really do you some good....
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
62466 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:18 am to
quote:

Pretty much confirms that a species will allow microevolution, but resist macroevolution in order to protect its DNA structure, You cant get from a chimp to a human if the species "protects its genes from mutation to ensure survival". Thats why there would be no fossil record.


You’re not the brightest bulb in the bunch are you?

Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
48081 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:23 am to
quote:

Nature does not work that way. That is like saying homosexuality is a part of nature - it isn't.

You got that wrong =

as long as we let "nature" work its miracle, we will be in good hands.

"Diversity is our Strength" - is the immutable law of nature

What goes wrong is when the fricking DEMOCRATs start fooling around with the "diversity is our strength' truism as a POLITICAL TOOL

Diversity is our WEAKNESS - once you refuse to allow any dysfunctional creation to survive or die. Otherwise the entire universe would be populated by clogs of useless protoplasm surviving on the least common denominator of existence. Any advance by any one organism would immediately be sacrificed for the 'betterment of the lessors.' <== THAT is the end result of the DEMOCRAT platform (only to be enforced once THEY are in the leadership position to determine "what is best" for the 'lessors')

Nature is ruthless - if a combination of molecules happen to occur and the result is something that cannot survive within the then accepted natural world - then it dies out - by bye - try again some other epoch.

That is why homosexuality exists - but in limited numbers and specialized situations.

Once you give homosexuality an unnatural ADVANTAGE in the gene pool survival odds, you start getting a REDUCED benefit from Nature by not allowing it to work its irrefutable truths on the world.

We get harry chested long-haired lipstick wearing Generals in the Marine Corps who got there because of some DEI directive which PREVENTED a legion of more capable individuals who were much more qualified to perform the underlying MISSION of the Armed Forces = Kill People, and Break Things, and Win Wars. <=== that's IT - nothing else matters, or else the mission is not as STRONG as it should be. And when we LOSE the next war, those long-haired, hairy-chested, lipstick wearing Generals will be offering blow jobs to the ENEMIES in order to save their militarily worthless lives.

and /\ that /\ example can be restyled to fit into ANY category of human progress - education, commerce, entertainment, parenthood, charity, patriotism, care for future generations - etc.

NOTHING is advanced by acceptance of life forms that cannot find a spot in the culture without FORCEFUL action that is harmful to the whole.

IF - using your example - homosexuals just stuck to their original demands that 'let us live our lives without interference from government' --- that would have been GREAT - in fact that is the way NATURE works - as long as they are just being homosexual - we AGREE that there have been LAWs in the past that were NOT GOOD - i.e. they PREVENTED homosexuals from blending in with the rest of society to enjoy the benefits of their USEFULNESS.

And we CONSERVATIVEs said YES - that is GOOD - let us remove the RESTRICTIONs imposed by POLITICS and not NATURE.

but that is NOT what the DEMOCRATs wanted from the git-go - they didn't give a shite about homosexuals per-se (look what they do to a homosexual that does not march to their POLTICAL drumbeat - they attack them more viscously than they do me.)

DEMOCRATs use disadvantaged souls who are capable of a beneficial slot in society - but are NOT qualified to be at a HIGHER level of society based on their CAPABILITY.

DEMOCRATs make them feel OPPRESSED by their lack of capability - all the DEMOCRATs are interested in is getting their VOTEs to use to enforce DEMOCRAT initiatives in creating new world orders, setting up bigger slush funds for themselves, and guaranteeing their next "election victory" - they would rather drink warm spit than actually make homosexuals FREE to do whatever they wanted. Unless they are LOCK STEP with the POLITICAL agenda they are worse that WORTHLESS

/\ same situation for ANY 'democrat' preferred class - change homosexual to Race - Culture - homelessness - drug addicts - criminals - parasites - choose any description you want.

There is ONE dictum - IF you bow down to WHATEVER THE HELL WE WANT TO DO - we will give you enough crumbs to keep you alive, but unhappy enough to vote against ANY opposition we have.

That's it.

but note that I did not use the word REPUBLICAN or GOP anywhere in my commentary - they are just not quite as EVIL as the DEMOCRAT party has become - they are on their way - but for the time being - they are the only shelter in the storm.

The first thing nature requires - survive the current crisis - then do what is better overall.

Conservatives are in survival mode - we may have to endure unpleasant compatriots until the crisis if over.
This post was edited on 9/21/23 at 7:29 am
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112651 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:30 am to
quote:

Science works on the Thomas McKenna quote “give us one free miracle and we’ll explain the rest.”


Reminds me of a joke my father told me...

Unbeknownst to humanity, scientists had discovered absolute proof of God's existence at the end of WWII. Because of that, God started speaking to a small group of scientists over the next decades (sort of a rolling interview of sorts).

In 1973, God told the scientists (who had become increasingly arrogant) that if they could recreate the creation of human life from dirt as He had done, He would leave the fate of humanity to them. This began an explosion of scientific development.

Anyway, in 2023, the scientists went to God and told Him: With our knowledge of genetics, computers, AI and science generally, we believe we can now recreate what You did. God said "okay, I'll see you next week."

Next week comes and God shows up at the front of the main building at Stanford University. The scientists are waiting. There are trailers and generators all over the place, as well as a small pile of dirt.

The scientists explain their plan and techniques to God, who patiently listened and occasionally nodded. As the demonstration was about to begin, the lead scientist picked up a shovel and was about to scoop some dirt when God interrupted and said "you have to create dirt, first."
This post was edited on 9/21/23 at 7:33 am
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
48081 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:32 am to
quote:

You’re not the brightest bulb in the bunch are you?

he hasn't been allowed to advance to "bulb" status yet = the creators of his world have decided that he is better off staying in the 'wannabe bulb' state.

IF he should advance to "butb" status - he just MIGHT recognize that some OTHERs in his class are just a little BRIGHTER - and may want to emulate THEM instead of continuing to ATTACK them.

he is still in the 'gravel' state = where he will stay until he gets tired of being thrown at the bright bulbs.
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
48081 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:47 am to
quote:

Gene mutation is not random

genes exist - they exist from prior mutations from other genes

Mutation is not a material thing - it is a process.

Precesses are random - but some processes do not work - regardless of how many times you try to get two electrons to combine to form some other substance, you fail. There are immutable laws that detemine what elemental processes will work.

Whatever happens after that is the product of those laws and random chance.

We are now on a quest to identify all those elementary immutable objects that are capable of combining with other objects to form new things we can give a name to.

At the time we have moved beyond Electron, Neutron, and Proton, as being the base particles.

We have advanced to the Quantum stage - Quarks and Muons and other stuff I vaguely even recognize as names, with woefully inadequate understanding of the how they interact to form the miraculous products we can see with the eyes and brains that somehow evolved from those original combinations of basic quanta.

We may learn even more in future ages.
Posted by MAADFACTS
Member since Jul 2021
1410 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:55 am to
quote:

I still cannot get a rational explanation as to the birth of a man in an ape family where they would have nurtured and raised that child to adulthood and then allowed that difference to procreate with one of theirs . Over and over and over.


The change is incremental so it’s not like you have two ape creatures raising a modern human. You have a series of more intelligent ape creatures raising increasingly intelligent offspring. Neanderthals also existed until we outbred, our hunted, and probably outright killed them off.


quote:

Nature does not work that way. That is like saying homosexuality is a part of nature - it isn't.


Animals engage in homosexual acts all the time., especially other apes. I’m not saying that homosexuality isn’t a moral wrong or a moral evil, but it is something that happens naturally in the wild. So does cannibalism. We try to hold ourselves to a higher standard than just what is natural
Posted by Squirrelmeister
Member since Nov 2021
3373 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 7:55 am to
quote:

All matter to ever exist came from a singular point. They don't have the slightest reason to believe that except that they suspect everything seems to be moving away from a point. But they don't really know any of that. Speculation


They don’t know how big or how dense that “point” was, and don’t claim to know.

Science has shown that all matter in the universe is generally expanding. It’s not speculation, but rather observable.

quote:

First of all, it's not magic.


A magic superhuman in the sky creating the world out of nothing by speaking it into existence is literally magic.

The most famous “magic” word… Abracadabra… literally means in Hebrew “I create as I speak”.

Here is the application definition from American-Webster’s dictionary:
Magic: noun: “an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source

God gives Aaron the power to turn his staff into a snake… the pharaoh’s magicians turn their own staffs into snakes. They replicate Aaron’s magic. Go read about it in Exodus.

quote:

Second, God isn't human by any stretch of the imagination.


“God” doesn’t exist. However, in the Bible, he walks in the garden of Eden, he wrestles with Jacob, he eats dinner face to face with Abraham, he rides on the clouds (and hurls lightning bolts). “God” sits on a throne, and has a huge dick (See Ezekiel 1:26-27). “God” man man in his image… did you forget that part? It’s on the first page of Genesis - should be easy enough to find for you. “God” looks like a supremely badass majestic human and has magic powers. I think my argument that “God” is a magical superhuman who lives in the sky is accurate.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135604 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 8:09 am to
quote:

Of course dogs came from wolves as we domesticated and intentionally bred them.
So we controlled their evolution.

Now do horses, zebras, and donkeys.

Common ancestry is the explanation.

If you want to exclude hominids from that equation, so be it.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 8:12 am to
quote:

Nature does not work that way. That is like saying homosexuality is a part of nature - it isn't.


Where did you learn that?
Posted by VolcanicTiger
Member since Apr 2022
5933 posts
Posted on 9/21/23 at 8:22 am to
quote:

Where did you learn that?
There's evidence of buggery but it's almost certainly completely reptilian-brained find-the-hole instinct, not listening to Judy Garland records and choosing window treatments together. I have never seen a study of a higher order animal showing a preference for the same sex over the opposite sex.
Jump to page
Page First 8 9 10 11 12 ... 35
Jump to page
first pageprev pagePage 10 of 35Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram