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re: Roseanne's tweets may have been politically incorrect, but they were not racist
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:50 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:50 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:That's a personal insult about a personal characteristic, like calling a person with a big nose Pinocchio. It's immature, but there isn't a well known racial usage of the term like there is in this context.
What if someone calls Obama "Jug Ears".
1
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:52 pm to SelaTiger
quote:
I don’t believe she’s that stupid so I have to believe she wanted her show canceled.
She's always had self destructive tendencies, to put it mildly.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:53 pm to Roger Klarvin
I'm glad you know people's intent. I would think with such a talent, you would be off doing something more important than posting on a message board.
You could make a lot of money with that talent.
Unfortunately, I don't have that talent.
You could make a lot of money with that talent.
Unfortunately, I don't have that talent.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:53 pm to buckeye_vol
Like 30 years ago I saw an 8 year old suspended for comparing a black kid to a monkey. It’s not like this is new.
It’s ok to expect grown people to know better than this. Doubling down with “but she really looks like it” is also very poor form.
It’s ok to expect grown people to know better than this. Doubling down with “but she really looks like it” is also very poor form.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:54 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Free speech for me but not for thee. That's pretty much the left in a nutshell.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:55 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
You think the actual meaning of words is a technicality?
It certainly can be. It's why the classical example of a technicality is arguing semantics when the endgame isn't in question.
quote:
Being called a racist in today's society is about the worst thing you can be called. You don't think it's important to be accurate to determine if the person ACTUALLY said something racist?
What she said is almost exclusively associated with racial discrimination. Anyone in our society claiming that such a comparison doesn't at least transiently conjure up such thoughts is a liar. Whether she IS a racist or not isn't particularly relevant, because what she said is initially perceived as racist by essentially everyone. If I called a black man a ****, it doesn't really matter whether I'm actually a racist at heart or not.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:56 pm to SelaTiger
quote:But she is. She's been in hot water before for doing the same thing, she just didn't have a show to ruin then.
I don’t believe she’s that stupid
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:57 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:It’s literally impossible to know someone’s true intent. Half the time we don’t know our own intent. But in this situation, Roseanne either meant it to be racist (or appear racist) or she's really, really stupid for lot knowing that it is one of the most common racial pejoratives, specifically when referring to black people. And stupidity is not an excuse when it's to that level, especially since she's shown to be witty and not some complete imbecile.
I'm glad you know people's intent
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:58 pm to Seldom Seen
quote:She practiced her free speech today, idiot
Free speech for me but not for thee.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 5:58 pm to buckeye_vol
Even racially stereotypical names are not racist.
Rude, yes. Racist, no.
Jarrett looks like a character from Planet of the Apes. I have had the same thought before. It's the shape of her face, not her skin color. She's lighter skinned than a lot of white people I know.
Rude, yes. Racist, no.
Jarrett looks like a character from Planet of the Apes. I have had the same thought before. It's the shape of her face, not her skin color. She's lighter skinned than a lot of white people I know.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:00 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
I'm glad you know people's intent. I would think with such a talent, you would be off doing something more important than posting on a message board.
But that's just it, intent doesn't really matter when you say something so clearly associated with a certain meaning or intent. If 999 people before me say something and mean one thing by it, then I say the same thing with different intent, I don't get to bitch when people assume I meant the first thing.
All you're doing here is coming across as someone who wishes to normalize the comparison of apes to black people. It's as if we call it something other than racist, you've achieved a victory. It's bizarre.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:05 pm to Roger Klarvin
Again, I have no issue with the common folk, such as yourself, not knowing what words mean and getting out their pitchforks.
My issue is with professionals who should know better.
If I were a headline writer, which I have been before:
"Roseanne canceled after inflammatory tweet"
or
"Roseanne canceled after insensitive tweet"
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:07 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
I'm talking about professionals that should know better.
Professionals know that words have semantic (meaning), syntactic (grammar), rhetorical (phrase), and historical contexts (associations and how it has been used). Why you don't seem to admit they have the latter is odd, as it's the reason why words (and ideas for that matter) can become taboo.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:08 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
She didn't call a black person ugly or fat or dumb, she called them an ape 
This is so silly on your part
This is so silly on your part
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:10 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Dude. It was racist.
I wouldn’t waste breath defending Rosanne Barr.
I wouldn’t waste breath defending Rosanne Barr.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:11 pm to crazy4lsu
I'm not defending Roseanne. She definitely intended it as a rude insult and deserves what she gets. That doesn't make it racist.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:18 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
You really can’t spin calling a black person an ape into not being racist.
She said it. She was fired from a show nobody watched.
Time to move on.
She said it. She was fired from a show nobody watched.
Time to move on.
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:21 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
That doesn't make it racist.
Right, the association with historical racial stereotypes gives it that impression. If she's so obtuse not to realize those associations, then I don't know what to tell you. The fact her tweet can be seen as racist is about the context. Which you seem to be pretending doesn't exist. Historical context is the literal reason why we have taboo words and ideas. It's in fact the most meaningful part of the word, as no other semantic or rhetorical situation can affect the meaning of words so greatly as the associative context, so much so that it can change the meaning of words entirely (as in the word literally, which has an actual meaning that is entirely different from how the word is used, with an added metaphoric layer).
You know all this too. She may not be a racist, and she may have meant to make a crude joke, but the historical associations, in this situation, are given priority over the syntactical structure. Absent that context, it is a crude, but innocuous joke. When that context is added , which it is with everything, the connotations appear. Why should the historical context be removed specifically for this one instance? Awareness of that context changes the way people speak in most other instances.
This post was edited on 5/29/18 at 6:22 pm
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:24 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Saying something like that on Twitter is beyond idiotic and anybody stupid enough to do so deserves whatever fallout occurs.
Got to think she wanted out of contract
Posted on 5/29/18 at 6:28 pm to crazy4lsu
This is a much bigger issue than fricking Roseanne Barr and this one instance.
People are using accusations of racism as a weapon and the definition is being so diluted that people have been fired, criticized and threatened for words that were not racist.
Even in this thread, what Roseanne Barr actually said has been repeated incorrectly.
I'm just starting a conversation.
People are using accusations of racism as a weapon and the definition is being so diluted that people have been fired, criticized and threatened for words that were not racist.
Even in this thread, what Roseanne Barr actually said has been repeated incorrectly.
I'm just starting a conversation.
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