re: Republicans Fail to See the Biggest Issue Costing them Undecided Voters

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A vast majority of the country and civilized society on earth disagrees with you.

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And that's not the only thing they disagree with him about.

Climate change, socialized medicine, men being able to be women, there's a whole host of things they disagree with him about.

So.

The.

frick.

What?

So what?

Y'all keep repeating that, but so what? What point do you think it makes?

Should we concede every point of policy that we're the minority on?

Of not, what is the fricking point of repeating that over and over again?

have a newsflash for you...if you are really a conservative, you're going to be the minority on just about every issue, because as someone else pointed out, conservatives believe in personal responsibility.

That's not popular in today's too comfortable developed society.

So..what? We just concede every point?

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If the idea of it being legal to kill 800,000 innocent human beings every year in this country alone doesn't bother you, you're a psychopath.

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Limp wrist pussies like you, not wanting to do the hard things, the things that need to be done are why we are in the situation we are in now.

We are in a war for the future of this country and our families against an evil F’n enemy (democrats.) Out of those 800,000 every year, let’s say that probably over 750,000 would have been future democrats voters or at minimum another mouth suckling the government teat in some way. Yeah the other 50,000 did not deserve it and it sucks but there are always casualties on both sides in a war.

Sounds like you should have made better choices in life. If I was married to a simpleton, evil wretch I'd either put my foot up her arse or just leave.

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Extreme agendas like you propose will lead to GOP losses

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What, in your opinion is an "extreme" agenda and conversely, what do YOU think would be a sensible agenda to aim for in order to defeat Kamala and her Marxist ilk who are set on destroying the country? Or are you over there hoping for destruction?

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while the society continues to move further left o

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This is going to happen in the aggregate regardless, until societal collapse.

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due to Democrats making it a greater part of their policies and brainwashing

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They only get to make it a big policy due to the threat of the GOP abortion boogeyman.

You follow my plan and that bogeyman evaporates in time and they lose their ability to fall back on abortion constantly. It will become a smaller part of their policies, which is why the GOP should benefit from it so much. That is the entire end game/goal of adopting a universal, moderate position on abortion.

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abortions have actually increased since Dobbs.

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That's irrelevant to the discussion.

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. While leaving the issue with the states seems to be the "moderate" position being taken

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That has nothing to do with this discussion, other than giving us data on how the population view it. Pro-Life causes took HUGE Ls in 2022 in red states.

Leaving it to the states isn't a moderate or extreme position.

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It seems that winning at the ballot box doesn't translate to winning on this issue

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You're not winning at the ballot box because the GOP permits extremist stances that scares people. That's the whole point. As I said, y'all took huge Ls in 2022.

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because the pragmatic position you and others are calling for is essentially abandonment of this issue altogether

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Yes, which hurts the DEMs more than the GOP.

Abortion is a much bigger deal for the DEMs than the GOP, because it appeals to a much wider portion of the total population. The extremist view on abortion on the right is a very small, dedicated minority with no cross-aisle appeal. The malleable DEM view (which is basically a counter to the GOP boogeyman more than a stated position) has huge cross-aisle appeal, hence why the GOP is losing ground in traditional red areas now.

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not trying to push a conservative pro-life position out of fear of backlash at the ballot box.

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We live in a democracy. Fear of backlash at the ballot box is a big deal in a democracy.

This is probably a good time to remind everyone this is discussing abortion as a political policy and not a personal-moral one.

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Right now, it seems that the moderate position (leaving it to the states) has resulted in more abortions being performed.

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Not only did you not answer the question, but you created a false premise to respond

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my position is now considered extreme because the leftward direction of our nation.

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I posted data on this a few days ago. It's been seen as extreme for 50+ years.

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You think that moving left in response will be a good thing?

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We are going to move left, first of all

Second, there are more important political policies I'd like the DEMs not to be in power to legislate.

This is probably a good time to remind everyone this is discussing abortion as a political policy and not a personal-moral one.

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Not only does that position lack principle,

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Only if you're conflating political positions with personal-moral ones.

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As the left continues to win the PR war, it won't be just abortion that you will have to call the GOP to moderate on.

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The GOP is losing the larger culture war because of abortion.

Remove abortion and the GOP has a fighting chance elsewhere.

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Pragmatism doesn't win in the end. You just wind up becoming the thing you once fought against and pretending you're winning because of it.

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If dropping abortion as an issue leads to a more capitalist country, then that would fully counter your comment.

As long as the DEMs keep dominating, we're going to become less capitalist.

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The number one issue that keeps them from fully embracing the GOP is their immovable stance on abortion,

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Those women may be educated, but they aren’t smart.

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This is going to happen in the aggregate regardless, until societal collapse.

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So your solution is to let it happen, just slow it down a little?

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They only get to make it a big policy due to the threat of the GOP abortion boogeyman.

You follow my plan and that bogeyman evaporates in time and they lose their ability to fall back on abortion constantly. It will become a smaller part of their policies, which is why the GOP should benefit from it so much. That is the entire end game/goal of adopting a universal, moderate position on abortion.

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Abortion is only a boogeyman because the left controls the narrative. It wasn't always a boogeyman. Republicans have been able to run on pro-life positions consistently for decades.

Do away with the abortion boogeyman and the left will just pivot to something else. What about the economy? The Democrats have been becoming more and more vocal about their support for Socialism and Communism in recent years with little negative impact. In fact, many of the younger voters seem to be supporting those policies more and more. When abortion is gone, should the GOP start supporting more socialistic and communistic policies to keep up with the left's brainwashing just like you're proposing with abortion? And after that, then what? What positions of the left should the GOP actually fight against rather than moderate on or embrace entirely for the same of political points that they won't be able to cash in?

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abortions have actually increased since Dobbs.

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That's irrelevant to the discussion.

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No it's not. You're proposing the GOP stick with the moderate position of letting the states handle abortion. Since the issue went back to the states, abortions have risen, meaning that the moderate position seems to be worse off for pro-life Republicans than having RvW in place in terms of actual abortions. The moderate position isn't saving lives on the whole so far.

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That has nothing to do with this discussion, other than giving us data on how the population view it. Pro-Life causes took HUGE Ls in 2022 in red states.

Leaving it to the states isn't a moderate or extreme position.

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Actually it is and that's what the "moderates" is calling for: leaving the issue with the states and ignoring it completely on the federal level as to not provide more ammunition for the left to use against the GOP for national elections.

Essentially what you and others are saying is that the abortion issue is dead and it should remain conceded to the cultural left and be ignored completely by the GOP so as to win elections.

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You're not winning at the ballot box because the GOP permits extremist stances that scares people. That's the whole point. As I said, y'all took huge Ls in 2022

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The left has dominated the culture and the messaging on abortion. Restrictive laws on abortion are becoming less popular in totality, whether they are "extreme" in your mind or not.

And whether the GOP is winning or not is not my point: your position concedes the issue of abortion entirely to the left so that it neuters any pro-life positions at all. Pro-life candidates have to remain silent on the issue or embrace a pro-abortion stance to win, and then if they win, they can't enact pro-life policy or legislation because they won't be re-elected.

What I keep pointing out to you is that abandoning principles for temporary political victories is hollow and ineffective in the long-run. You're giving up the moral high ground and embracing the narrative of the opponents only to have to concede more and more ground over time until the GOP is only a slightly less evil party than the Democrats, giving way on all social policy and becoming more aligned on economic policy.

There's a cultural war that needs to be fought.

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Yes, which hurts the DEMs more than the GOP.

Abortion is a much bigger deal for the DEMs than the GOP, because it appeals to a much wider portion of the total population. The extremist view on abortion on the right is a very small, dedicated minority with no cross-aisle appeal. The malleable DEM view (which is basically a counter to the GOP boogeyman more than a stated position) has huge cross-aisle appeal, hence why the GOP is losing ground in traditional red areas now.

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Again, you're referring to appeal and extremism. My entire point is that the left has been winning the culture war on this issue for a while through its indoctrination and the left's abandonment of principle. What is appealing and what is considering extreme has shifted over time, and your pragmatic approach is not just a loser in the long run (as beliefs continue to shift to the left, causing the GOP to continue to abandon positions it once held) but it is unprincipled. The GOP is under the thumb of the political and ideological left in all of this, and you seem fine with that as long as the GOP can win some political battles from time to time.

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We live in a democracy. Fear of backlash at the ballot box is a big deal in a democracy.

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It is, which is my point. The GOP is conceding this issue entirely to the left because the left controls the narrative. The same thing is happening with other issues and will continue to do so into the future while principle is abandoned by people like you.

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This is probably a good time to remind everyone this is discussing abortion as a political policy and not a personal-moral one.

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They are related.

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Not only did you not answer the question, but you created a false premise to respond

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The current GOP position as represented by Trump is to leave the issue with the states and not push it. That position is leading to more abortions. The position that the left wanted was a return to RvW, which resulted in less abortions than what we've had over the last year. Earlier you said that the Dobbs decision was irrelevant. The question you posed is why it matters.

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We are going to move left, first of all

Second, there are more important political policies I'd like the DEMs not to be in power to legislate.

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We are going to move left because no one is fighting for the right and people like you are more concerned about small political victories than the "fundamental change" that Obama talked about and which the left has implemented.

You believe there are more important political policies than abortion, but that's because you seem to lack principle. If we cannot agree that protecting the most vulnerable among us in this nation and protecting the dignity and value of human life is the most important thing, then nothing else really matters. If we can arbitrarily determine when life matters and when a person can be killed, then who cares about anything else? You concede that the WEF and other one-world government types have a leg to stand on when they propose measure like euthanasia and mass starvation or extermination in order to save the planet. When you give way on abortion, you open the door to every type of political and social evil imaginable.

Not to mention your worldview makes morality nothing more than the democratized whims of the masses, which translates to political policy. Your worldview is why you lack principle on this.

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Only if you're conflating political positions with personal-moral ones.

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You honestly don't see the connection between political policy and morality? For someone who says we live in a democracy, it's curious that you don't see that connection.

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Remove abortion and the GOP has a fighting chance elsewhere.

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You think abortion is the reason for the losing of the culture war? From CRT to trans rights, this nation has been shifting left fast over the last decade. You think that will stop when the GOP starts ignoring abortion?

Lawyers and doctors are not representative of the entire U.S. female population and voter base. What percentage of the U.S. female population do you think are lawyers and doctors? Lawyers are often very liberal, as I'm sure female doctors likely lean very liberal/feminist as well.

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I know that but if the gop wants to be successful, they’ll get off their high horse and drop it as a political issue.

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It is dropped... It's Democrats who keep bringing it up and, more importantly, LYING about it, fear mongering in order to try to win an election.

Dems are still campaigning on the lie that Trump wants a federal abortion ban. That is outright false, and easily proven as false.