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re: Religious Leaders Told to 'Prepare Now' for UFO Disclosure and 'Bible-Changing' Revelation
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:27 pm to AlterEd
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:27 pm to AlterEd
quote:
Instead, these disclosures will force people to take another look at the context of the words within the Bible.
"I have sheep that are not of this flock".
1
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:27 pm to Powerman
quote:
He suggested that the bible is human based. That's not a complex statement to either agree or disagree with.
Of course it's human based. What's the larger point?
It was you that was working from a false premise that the Bible was a "complete work of truth about the universe".
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:28 pm to moneyg
quote:
But, your larger point is what?
The aliens may feel left out because God doesn't give a shite about them, apparently. They may not even be able to feel the grace of God, as Jesus saved humanity.
...unless they had their own savior, which would really get werid/interesting.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:29 pm to aubie101
quote:
He is a gay
Wait what?
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:29 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
"I have sheep that are not of this flock".
A statement about humans
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:31 pm to SlowFlowPro
You changed the variable in the analogy. My point was about traversing an actually infinite sequence of past events to arrive at the present. Your florist example is not a traversal. It is a continuous state.
An immortal florist with endless flowers does not have to complete an infinite process before the shop opens. The shop is simply stocked at every moment… but an infinite past would require arriving at “now” after an actually infinite succession of prior moments. That is the problem the analogy addresses.
So the issue is not “can infinity exist conceptually?” The issue is whether an actually infinite temporal sequence can be completed by successive addition. Those are different categories.
An immortal florist with endless flowers does not have to complete an infinite process before the shop opens. The shop is simply stocked at every moment… but an infinite past would require arriving at “now” after an actually infinite succession of prior moments. That is the problem the analogy addresses.
So the issue is not “can infinity exist conceptually?” The issue is whether an actually infinite temporal sequence can be completed by successive addition. Those are different categories.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:31 pm to Powerman
quote:
Your 5th grade sense of humor seems to pair well with your IQ
Look, we can go in circles on history, but the real issue usually isn't a lack of evidene,it's a refusal to see it. ...Truth isn't just an intellectual game or a debate to "win"; it’s a reality that demands a response.I enjoy discussing Scripture and the deep questions of life, and I’ve spent a lot of time studying this, but education only gets you so far. ...At some point, you have to stop hiding behind what ifs and deal with the fact that if Christ actually rose, everything changes.
Often, people don't reject God because of a lack of logic, but because they aren't ready to face what that truth means for how they live their lives.
I do have a 5th grade sense of humor and I love it... It makes me smile and remember that life is not that serious. Having a stick up your butt like you and your lover there shows me that.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:33 pm to METAL
quote:
but an infinite past would require arriving at “now” after an actually infinite succession of prior moments. That is the problem the analogy addresses.
It isn't a problem and your analogy doesn't address it well
quote:
he issue is whether an actually infinite temporal sequence can be completed by successive addition.
Define "completed"
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:33 pm to JPLSU1981
quote:
I wish I knew the answer
I wasn't asking you to explain it. I was asking you to give a single plausible explanation that would justify what you believe.
You asked your question because you mistakenly thought it was a paradox that would be tough to answer and still maintain a belief in God. I think you failed, but nonetheless that was your point.
I asked you the question I did because I don't think you can even plausibly answer the question and justify your belief system.
You are as much of a believer as religious people.
That's the reality.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:36 pm to CorchJay
quote:
Why do pastors or priest have to prepare for disclosure?
Because many rigid fundamentalist Christians are going to panic, and those who are secretly looking for reasons to leave will believe they have it.
This certainly sets the stage for the great falling away (apostasia). Perhaps this is God’s way of saying “you might wanna hold off on that new parking lot addition. You’re gonna need that money elsewhere.”
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
A statement about humans
When Jesus says, "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold" (John 10:16), he’s dropping a massive hint that his work isn't limited to the people standing right in front of him.
Of course it is about non-jews, but it also can be anyone outside the immediate frame.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I didn't state it as a belief. I stated it as a possibility.
It may not be your belief (or one that you admit to), but it is certainly only a belief.
quote:
Fallacy
nonsensical
quote:
Fruit of fallacy
fruit of nonsense
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:37 pm to ithad2bme
quote:Enoch is just one (Jewish) writing, but he refers to many writings outside of the Bible for context, like the Enuma Elish, and ancient Ugarit literature like the Baal Cycle. I'm not saying the writings "override the Hebrew/Greek text", but are used to interpret the text of the Bible, declaring that where we have differences of interpretation, that we need to go with what the ANE societies believed.
I have read a lot of his work and listened to his podcasts, so I'm interested to understand where Heiser lets Enoch override the Hebrew/Greek text instead of using it as background information. Is there a commentary or information you can point me to?
Most historical interpretations of Psalm 82:1 and Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (central verses in Heiser's theology of the unseen realm) believe that verse is in reference to earthly rulers (referred to as "gods"/elohim), while Heiser points to ANE beliefs about a divine council as being supernatural beings as the starting point for interpreting this verse, along with other Jewish writings like Enoch. The gods and the sons of gods are categories that Heiser associates with the Watchers of 1 Enoch (tying it together with Genesis 6:4) and other spiritual rulers in Heaven and over Earth, again informed by other ANE beliefs that he believed the ancient Jews shared a similar understanding of the supernatural world, though different in terms of YAHWEH being the only uncreated being.
My contention is that while the consensus of church history de-emphasized a heavenly being interpretation of these passages, modern studies--including Heiser's--focus more on ANE comparative analysis, interpreting the Bible in light of other cultures and beliefs.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:37 pm to SallysHuman
quote:
Engineered by....???
Who do you think?
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:37 pm to AUstar
quote:
independent scientists
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:38 pm to aubie101
quote:I have to disagree with the inference that Jesus could have been talking about aliens or other non-human life.
When Jesus says, "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold" (John 10:16), he’s dropping a massive hint that his work isn't limited to the people standing right in front of him.
Of course it is about non-jews, but it also can be anyone outside the immediate frame.
Jesus became a human being to be our representative and die the death we deserve for our sins. He is our substitute through faith, not the substitute for non-human life forms.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:38 pm to aubie101
quote:
When Jesus says, "I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold" (John 10:16), he’s dropping a massive hint that his work isn't limited to the people standing right in front of him.
Well yeah. At that point in time, 99.9999999999% of the world's (human) population had no idea who he even was.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:38 pm to aubie101
quote:
Of course it is about non-jews, but it also can be anyone outside the immediate frame.
Looks like you're guessing again
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:39 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
Because many rigid fundamentalist Christians are going to panic, and those who are secretly looking for reasons to leave will believe they have it.
This certainly sets the stage for the great falling away (apostasia). Perhaps this is God’s way of saying “you might wanna hold off on that new parking lot addition. You’re gonna need that money elsewhere.”
Yep, to most especially Catholics and Orthodox we shrug our shoulders and say so? We have talked about it for at least 700 years.
Posted on 5/7/26 at 12:40 pm to SlowFlowPro
Just because you can’t understand or grasp a problem conceptually doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist… Completed in the sense of being traversed or exhausted such that you arrive at a present moment.
If the past is actually infinite, then before today there were infinitely many prior moments. Before yesterday, infinitely many more. There is never a point at which the sequence is “crossed” to arrive at now.
That is the distinction between a potentially infinite process and an actually completed infinite temporal regress. You can always add another number to a sequence conceptually. But a real temporal sequence is successive. One moment after another. The question is whether an infinite number of successive moments can be traversed to reach the present.
My argument is no, because an actually infinite regress has no starting boundary from which arrival is possible.
If the past is actually infinite, then before today there were infinitely many prior moments. Before yesterday, infinitely many more. There is never a point at which the sequence is “crossed” to arrive at now.
That is the distinction between a potentially infinite process and an actually completed infinite temporal regress. You can always add another number to a sequence conceptually. But a real temporal sequence is successive. One moment after another. The question is whether an infinite number of successive moments can be traversed to reach the present.
My argument is no, because an actually infinite regress has no starting boundary from which arrival is possible.
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