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re: Question for Devil Worshippers about Satan
Posted on 12/28/22 at 6:42 pm to Squirrelmeister
Posted on 12/28/22 at 6:42 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
A rational logical conversation with this type of person is not possible. It’s circular logic, which isn’t logic.
His thinking is like this: it’s in the Bible so it it true. It’s true because it’s in the Bible.
Can’t argue with stupid. I overestimated his intellect and probably wasted a bunch of my time but maybe some others got something from my arguments.
Foo: We have objective morality because my god is truth and cannot be wrong.
Anyone: Who says your god is the truth and cannot be wrong?
Foo: My god does.
3
Posted on 12/28/22 at 6:44 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Has Christianity been a net positive for the world?
Posted on 12/28/22 at 6:58 pm to Squirrelmeister
I knew about 90% of that, and I thank you for the other 10%
Yeah, I think the MT is pretty useless too. But be careful mentioning Koine. We have a poster who insists that it is exactly the same as Classical and that using the word “Koine” exposes you as a poser!
My only point was that skipping straight to a comparatively-obscure translation (without explaining why) tends to weaken your argument for the folks who are not aware of (for example) the differences between the MT and the LXX.
We have a lot of folks here who are utterly convinced that the KJV remains the best-conceivable translation, to this very day.
We also have posters who completely reject the very idea of the four independent sources of the Torah (Y/J, E, P & D). Needless to say, their heads spin when you attempt to discuss the dating and/or geography of each source. The notion that the Northern Kingdom (Israel) and the Southern Kingdom (Judah) may have had related-but-different monolatrist religions and scriptures? (head explodes). Cyrus’s regime as a possible substantive contributor to the actual scriptures? (fightin’ words)
Yeah, I think the MT is pretty useless too. But be careful mentioning Koine. We have a poster who insists that it is exactly the same as Classical and that using the word “Koine” exposes you as a poser!
My only point was that skipping straight to a comparatively-obscure translation (without explaining why) tends to weaken your argument for the folks who are not aware of (for example) the differences between the MT and the LXX.
We have a lot of folks here who are utterly convinced that the KJV remains the best-conceivable translation, to this very day.
We also have posters who completely reject the very idea of the four independent sources of the Torah (Y/J, E, P & D). Needless to say, their heads spin when you attempt to discuss the dating and/or geography of each source. The notion that the Northern Kingdom (Israel) and the Southern Kingdom (Judah) may have had related-but-different monolatrist religions and scriptures? (head explodes). Cyrus’s regime as a possible substantive contributor to the actual scriptures? (fightin’ words)
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:11 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
We have a lot of folks here who are utterly convinced that the KJV remains the best-conceivable translation, to this very day.
Like who? I’ve never seen that claim. It may have been made but I seriously doubt it’s a lot of people.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:24 pm to roadGator
quote:
Has Christianity been a net positive for the world?
In my opinion, likely not, but that's impossible to quantify objectively.
More importantly, I think human knowledge has outpaced the usefulness of Christianity.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:30 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
1 Corinthians 1:18–19 (ESV): 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:31 pm to First Sergeant1
We'll see.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:36 pm to Flats
quote:In that thread, it was (I think) two people in a thread about 3 weeks ago. I did not note the names. If you’re really that interested, I think it was part of the discussion regarding the use of “Holy Ghost“ versus “Holy Spirit“ in the KJV. You may be able to find them with those keywords.
Like who? I’ve never seen that claim. It may have been made but I seriously doubt it’s a lot of people.
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 7:56 pm
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:52 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
It was (I think) two people
That sounds much more realistic.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:53 pm to AggieHank86
I have 3 different Bibles, Literal Standard, New Revised Standard, and KJV. Think is good to go thru each and compare. On day 5 of creation, God created great dragons (LSV), seamonsters (NRSV), and whales (KJV). Not sure which is more accurately translated, but would guess all three translated from a single Hebrew word that could many any in certain context.
Regarding Holy Spirit, I still dont really understand it. Enoch I has terms Lord of Spirits/ Lord of Hosts/ Holy One/ Head of Days. All may refer to God, but wonder if one might refer to the Holy Spirit? For Messiah it uses Elect One/ Annointed One/ Righteous One/ and Son of Man.
Regarding Holy Spirit, I still dont really understand it. Enoch I has terms Lord of Spirits/ Lord of Hosts/ Holy One/ Head of Days. All may refer to God, but wonder if one might refer to the Holy Spirit? For Messiah it uses Elect One/ Annointed One/ Righteous One/ and Son of Man.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:58 pm to THog
From an academic perspective, the most interesting thing about this entire translation issue is that the translations need to be continuously updated, as we find older and older source material (e.g. the dead sea scrolls) with language which differs from the later materials already incorporated.
We can watch the language of the Torah evolving over time, even in the original Hebrew.
We can watch the language of the Torah evolving over time, even in the original Hebrew.
quote:On my desktop, I have bookmarked a site where I can simultaneously view three translations in parallel columns, chosen from about a hundred translation options. Very informative.
I have 3 different Bibles, Literal Standard, New Revised Standard, and KJV. Think is good to go thru each and compare.
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 8:14 pm
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:01 pm to THog
All of it is interesting. Not to the point of worshiping it of course. Just trying to learn about how it came about and works in relation with Jesus and the Bible.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:09 pm to AggieHank86
Not a scholar, but would reason ancient languages had a smaller vocabulary with more specific words added over time.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:10 pm to THog
quote:100% accurate.
Not a scholar, but would reason ancient languages had a smaller vocabulary with more specific words added over time.
Even among modern languages, English has several multiples of total vocabulary (1.2 million words) of the other languages. For instance, German has 300,000.
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 8:13 pm
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:17 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
We'll see.
I'm late in, but there will be no "we'll see" to the fact of imminent death. The only thing that is possible to "see" is whether the Biblical Narrative of a Spiritual Universe is valid. And if so, what are the Rules. Happy New Year, DB.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:34 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Foo: We have objective morality because my god is truth and cannot be wrong.
Whether you agree with him or not, he probably has a higher word count than any other poster on this particular topic. There's no need for you to lie about what he has or hasn't said, or what he believes. His words can do that just fine.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:37 pm to Flats
quote:
Whether you agree with him or not, he probably has a higher word count than any other poster on this particular topic. There's no need for you to lie about what he has or hasn't said, or what he believes. His words can do that just fine.
Well, it's a good thing I accurately represented his position, and I didn't need a high word count to do it.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:38 pm to Lickitty Split
“Devil worshippers” are try hard idiots. Satanists are, by their own definition, atheists.
Without commentary on the veracity of such beliefs, the overwhelming majority of people who believe in Satan (or Eblis)are either Christian or Muslim.
Without commentary on the veracity of such beliefs, the overwhelming majority of people who believe in Satan (or Eblis)are either Christian or Muslim.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:43 pm to RCDfan1950
quote:
I'm late in, but there will be no "we'll see" to the fact of imminent death.
Is that what you think those verses mean? Maybe I'm missing your point, but I don't think I am.
quote:
Happy New Year, DB.
Cheers to you and yours.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 8:53 pm to bendellee
quote:
Devil worshippers” are try hard idiots. Satanists are, by their own definition, atheists.
apparently there are no devil worshippers on TD.
I was unaware that Satanists are atheists and it makes so little sense I'd want to hear it from the horses mouth.
delighted at aggiehanks nuanced take and the 3 column translations.
aggiehank, what variation is there for the scene at the trial when Jesus states his oneness with the divine person, I and the father are one, for which he is found guilty of heresy although imho Jesus statement was intended as guide for all of us in that we all arise in and as the one divine person who is us.
side trip:
that's out toward kaballah.
the Hebrew word for None has a secondary definition nothing. therefore "there is one god there's nothing else. my translation of the traditional "there is one god there is none else.
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