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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 9/2/24 at 6:51 pm to SBGRosco
quote:that assumes evil and free will don't exist and all mankind follow God's law.
Outside of the existence of God & His commandments there is no justification or purpose for law, morality, ethics or any other ordering of society.
A really bad assumption proven wrong every day since Moses brought his laws down from Horeb/Sinai
Posted on 9/2/24 at 6:56 pm to I20goon
Posted on 9/2/24 at 7:01 pm to SBGRosco
quote:
Prove me wrong
Not my job to prove you wrong.
It's your job to prove yourself right.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 7:02 pm to SBGRosco
quote:
I’m an average Joe of sorts but some of the “big” questions from throughout the ages are intriguing to me.
This.
I question everything and I will die a non-organized religion, Christian Apologist.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 7:41 pm to Speckhunter2012
Outside of Jesus and his compassion there is no charitable organizations today
Posted on 9/2/24 at 8:23 pm to SBGRosco
Seems someone forgot there are 3 Abrahamic faiths. All 3 have nations based upon the teachings of said faiths. All are most decidedly different from a morality perspective.
If you live your life being morally "good" only for the joy of reward or fear of punishment in the afterlife, you really aren't a moral person at all. You are just gaming the system.
If you live your life being morally "good" only for the joy of reward or fear of punishment in the afterlife, you really aren't a moral person at all. You are just gaming the system.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 8:28 pm to SBGRosco
quote:
or that God’s commandments were handed down only recently into such an existence.
I mean there is none other than the bible... It literally documents society well before the commandments were handed down.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 9:47 pm to SBGRosco
Okay. Well. Explain the existence of evil. I will hang up and listen.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 10:07 pm to 5WFSHR
quote:No, but that's not relevant to this discussion.
Can you disprove God?
Posted on 9/2/24 at 10:08 pm to SBGRosco
quote:It is since you made an assumption about it to get to your overall point.
This conversation isn’t about proving the existence of God.
Prove that assumption first, then we can discuss your assertion.
Posted on 9/2/24 at 10:17 pm to SBGRosco
Correct
Posted on 9/2/24 at 10:24 pm to Furious
quote:Many people that don't believe in God are ethical, follow laws, and do things to maintain order in society, so...
Correct
Posted on 9/3/24 at 5:18 am to SelaTiger
quote:
common decency and order
Which in our society is based on God of the Bible and His commands. Take that away we see what we are seeing in Venezuela. It's no coincidence that we are seeing the removal of God from society over time connected to the current decline in common decency and order.
Atheists and anarchist don't like it, but God gives us guardrails. Which are His laws, and we have crashed thru them and way off His path.
This nation definitely needs to get right with God, or there's no point in saving it.
Posted on 9/3/24 at 7:33 am to SBGRosco
quote:
existence of God
False premise.
quote:
His commandments
The ones “Jesus” rebuked in the gospels according to Mark, Luke, and John? I’m using quotes for “Jesus” because he is just a fictional character. The commandments Paul described as a curse, as not needing to be followed, as impossible to follow. In Ezekiel 20:25 “God” himself describes his commandments as not good an impossible to follow. Many of the commandments of the Torah were plagiarized from the Code of Hammurabi, which makes sense because the Torah was composed during and after the Babylonian exile.
quote:
no justification or purpose for law, morality, ethics or any other ordering of society.
It’s a tough question. Why are we here and what is our purpose (because there is no God)? No one knows, but maybe we weren’t given a purpose. Maybe our purpose is to raise families and enjoy life and live in peace with others, and to improve society by increasing happiness and wellbeing while reducing unnecessary suffering?
Realize that none of our laws nor modern ethics uses anything found in the Bible, which is a book which prescribes injustice and immorality. This country wasn’t founded on biblical ethics, despite what you have read on the internet or heard from your preacher. Our country’s laws have a foundation in Greek and Roman democratic republic governments, and our modern morals and ethics have a foundation in Greek philosophy of the likes of Plato and Aristotle.
quote:
Prove me wrong
It honestly sounds like you are looking for validation rather than an honest discussion. Do you really have an open mind, and are willing to listen to arguments (with supporting evidence) which contradict your views?
Are you ready to make lucid, rational arguments in your own favor? What evidence can you posit to back up your beliefs? Is your argument going to be a fallacious circular argument?
Let me use an example of circular logic that my friend on here “Foomanchoo” would support:
God exists - in fact only the one true God of the Bible exists - and we know of his existence because it says so in the Bible. And because the Bible is the Truth, we know that it proves God exists. And because other religious scriptures are not the Truth, we can ignore them because there’s no truth in them.
Seems silly, doesn’t it?
Posted on 9/3/24 at 7:47 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
And because other religious scriptures are not the Truth, we can ignore them because there’s no truth in them
Always great when you know that out of the thousands of religions that have existed throughout history, those who worship have always been lucky enough to find the only correct one.
Posted on 9/3/24 at 9:57 pm to shel311
quote:
Many people that don't believe in God are ethical, follow laws, and do things to maintain order in society, so...
This is because the Holly Spirit exists whether you believe it or not. Additionally, traditions that were founded in obedience to God’s will continue through the generations, even is the belief in God does not.
Either way, God is the absolute Truth. I will pray for you and all non-believers. God loves you.
Posted on 9/3/24 at 9:59 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I’d say that purpose can exist apart from God, but such purpose would be arbitrary.
God exists and is the foundation for moral reasoning. He is the objective standard we must look to in order to measure actions as good or bad. All other standards are subjective.
This is the correct answer (and exactly what I posted).
Posted on 9/3/24 at 10:02 pm to shel311
quote:
Many people that don't believe in God are ethical, follow laws, and do things to maintain order in society, so...
You're right. The OP over reached badly.
You can have systems of ethics, laws, and order in society without a transcendent moral authority.
You can even have morality.
You just can't have any meaningful (objective) morality or any ethical systems or laws based on meaningful morality. You just have moral relativism.
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