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Posted on 12/8/24 at 10:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
child who was born in the United States to Chinese-citizen parents who are lawful permanent residents
So, there's no precedent on illegal residents. As I already knew, and you probably did, too.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 10:56 am to Stealth Matrix
quote:
So, there's no precedent on illegal residents
That's bad wording on that summary
They didn't have those sorts of distinctions back in the those days.
And you have to read the ruling to see the contemporary textual analysis that guts whatever you'd throw at it today.
Textualism and historical analysis would have to be completely abandoned by the conservatives on the Supreme Court to overrule Wong
Posted on 12/8/24 at 10:57 am to Major Dutch Schaefer
quote:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
We do not give citizenship to the children of foreign diplomats who are born here.
It depends on the interpretation of who is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". I would think people who came into this country illegally or illegally overstayed a visa could be argued to be "outside the law" and maybe this could be stretched. However, diplomats have immunity whereas illegals don't, so, that's an argument the other way.
If it wound through the courts to the SCOTUS, I think they could likely find that the 14th applied to former slaves, but I think the SCOTUS would also be hesitant to find the executive branch could remove citizenship.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 10:58 am to Ostrich
quote:It has nothing to do with congress
Won’t pass congress
Posted on 12/8/24 at 10:59 am to Major Dutch Schaefer
An EO can end the anchor baby stuff. Ann Coulter wrote this back in 2010. I've posted this multiple times but people refuse to educate themselves on this issue.
Justice Brennan’s Footnote Gave Us Anchor Babies
by: Ann Coulter August 4, 2010
Democrats act as if the right to run across the border when you're 8 1/2 months pregnant, give birth in a U.S. hospital and then immediately start collecting welfare was exactly what our forebears had in mind, a sacred constitutional right, as old as the 14th Amendment itself.
The louder liberals talk about some ancient constitutional right, the surer you should be that it was invented in the last few decades.
In fact, this alleged right derives only from a footnote slyly slipped into a Supreme Court opinion by Justice Brennan in 1982. You might say it snuck in when no one was looking, and now we have to let it stay.
The 14th Amendment was added after the Civil War in order to overrule the Supreme Court's Dred Scott decision, which had held that black slaves were not citizens of the United States. The precise purpose of the amendment was to stop sleazy Southern states from denying citizenship rights to newly freed slaves - many of whom had roots in this country longer than a lot of white people.
The amendment guaranteed that freed slaves would have all the privileges of citizenship by providing: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
The drafters of the 14th amendment had no intention of conferring citizenship on the children of aliens who happened to be born in the U.S. (For my younger readers, back in those days, people cleaned their own houses and raised their own kids.)
Inasmuch as America was not the massive welfare state operating as a magnet for malingerers, frauds and cheats that it is today, it's amazing the drafters even considered the amendment's effect on the children of aliens.
But they did.
The very author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, expressly said: "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."
In the 1884 case Elk v. Wilkins, the Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment did not even confer citizenship on Indians - because they were subject to tribal jurisdiction, not U.S. jurisdiction.
For a hundred years, that was how it stood, with only one case adding the caveat that children born to LEGAL permanent residents of the U.S., gainfully employed, and who were not employed by a foreign government would also be deemed citizens under the 14th Amendment. (United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898.)
And then, out of the blue in 1982, Justice Brennan slipped a footnote into his 5-4 opinion in Plyler v. Doe asserting that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful." (Other than the part about one being lawful and the other not.)
Brennan's authority for this lunatic statement was that it appeared in a 1912 book written by Clement L.
So on one hand we have the history, the objective, the author's intent and 100 years of history of the 14th Amendment, which says that the 14th Amendment does not confer citizenship on children born to illegal immigrants.
On the other hand, we have a random outburst by some guy named Clement - who, I'm guessing, was too cheap to hire an American housekeeper.
Any half-wit, including Clement L. Bouve, could conjure up a raft of such "plausible distinction(s)" before breakfast. Among them: Legal immigrants have been checked for subversive ties, contagious diseases, and have some quali`cation to be here other than "lives within walking distance."
But most important, Americans have a right to decide, as the people of other countries do, who becomes a citizen.
Combine Justice Brennan's footnote with America's ludicrously generous welfare policies, and you end up with a bankrupt country.
Consider the story of one family of illegal immigrants described in the Spring 2005 Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons:
"Cristobal Silverio came illegally from Oxtotilan, Mexico, in 1997 and brought his wife Felipa, plus three children aged 19, 12 and 8. Felipa ... gave birth to a new daughter, her anchor baby, named Flor. Flor was premature, spent three months in the neonatal incubator, and cost San Joaquin Hospital more than
$300,000. Meanwhile, (Felipa's 19-year-old daughter) Lourdes plus her illegal alien husband produced their own anchor baby, Esmeralda. Grandma Felipa created a second anchor baby, Cristian. ... The two Silverio anchor babies generate $1,000 per month in public welfare funding. Flor gets $600 per month for asthma. Healthy Cristian gets $400. Cristobal and Felipa last year earned $18,000 picking fruit. Flor and Cristian were paid $12,000 for being anchor babies."
In the Silverios' muni`cent new hometown of Stockton, Calif., 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in 2003 in the San Joaquin General Hospital were anchor babies. As of this month, Stockton is $23 million in the hole.
It's bad enough to be governed by 5-4 decisions written by liberal judicial activists. In the case of "anchor babies," America is being governed by Brennan's 1982 footnote.
Justice Brennan’s Footnote Gave Us Anchor Babies
by: Ann Coulter August 4, 2010
Democrats act as if the right to run across the border when you're 8 1/2 months pregnant, give birth in a U.S. hospital and then immediately start collecting welfare was exactly what our forebears had in mind, a sacred constitutional right, as old as the 14th Amendment itself.
The louder liberals talk about some ancient constitutional right, the surer you should be that it was invented in the last few decades.
In fact, this alleged right derives only from a footnote slyly slipped into a Supreme Court opinion by Justice Brennan in 1982. You might say it snuck in when no one was looking, and now we have to let it stay.
The 14th Amendment was added after the Civil War in order to overrule the Supreme Court's Dred Scott decision, which had held that black slaves were not citizens of the United States. The precise purpose of the amendment was to stop sleazy Southern states from denying citizenship rights to newly freed slaves - many of whom had roots in this country longer than a lot of white people.
The amendment guaranteed that freed slaves would have all the privileges of citizenship by providing: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
The drafters of the 14th amendment had no intention of conferring citizenship on the children of aliens who happened to be born in the U.S. (For my younger readers, back in those days, people cleaned their own houses and raised their own kids.)
Inasmuch as America was not the massive welfare state operating as a magnet for malingerers, frauds and cheats that it is today, it's amazing the drafters even considered the amendment's effect on the children of aliens.
But they did.
The very author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, expressly said: "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."
In the 1884 case Elk v. Wilkins, the Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment did not even confer citizenship on Indians - because they were subject to tribal jurisdiction, not U.S. jurisdiction.
For a hundred years, that was how it stood, with only one case adding the caveat that children born to LEGAL permanent residents of the U.S., gainfully employed, and who were not employed by a foreign government would also be deemed citizens under the 14th Amendment. (United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898.)
And then, out of the blue in 1982, Justice Brennan slipped a footnote into his 5-4 opinion in Plyler v. Doe asserting that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful." (Other than the part about one being lawful and the other not.)
Brennan's authority for this lunatic statement was that it appeared in a 1912 book written by Clement L.
So on one hand we have the history, the objective, the author's intent and 100 years of history of the 14th Amendment, which says that the 14th Amendment does not confer citizenship on children born to illegal immigrants.
On the other hand, we have a random outburst by some guy named Clement - who, I'm guessing, was too cheap to hire an American housekeeper.
Any half-wit, including Clement L. Bouve, could conjure up a raft of such "plausible distinction(s)" before breakfast. Among them: Legal immigrants have been checked for subversive ties, contagious diseases, and have some quali`cation to be here other than "lives within walking distance."
But most important, Americans have a right to decide, as the people of other countries do, who becomes a citizen.
Combine Justice Brennan's footnote with America's ludicrously generous welfare policies, and you end up with a bankrupt country.
Consider the story of one family of illegal immigrants described in the Spring 2005 Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons:
"Cristobal Silverio came illegally from Oxtotilan, Mexico, in 1997 and brought his wife Felipa, plus three children aged 19, 12 and 8. Felipa ... gave birth to a new daughter, her anchor baby, named Flor. Flor was premature, spent three months in the neonatal incubator, and cost San Joaquin Hospital more than
$300,000. Meanwhile, (Felipa's 19-year-old daughter) Lourdes plus her illegal alien husband produced their own anchor baby, Esmeralda. Grandma Felipa created a second anchor baby, Cristian. ... The two Silverio anchor babies generate $1,000 per month in public welfare funding. Flor gets $600 per month for asthma. Healthy Cristian gets $400. Cristobal and Felipa last year earned $18,000 picking fruit. Flor and Cristian were paid $12,000 for being anchor babies."
In the Silverios' muni`cent new hometown of Stockton, Calif., 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in 2003 in the San Joaquin General Hospital were anchor babies. As of this month, Stockton is $23 million in the hole.
It's bad enough to be governed by 5-4 decisions written by liberal judicial activists. In the case of "anchor babies," America is being governed by Brennan's 1982 footnote.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:04 am to CharlesUFarley
quote:
It depends on the interpretation of who is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". I would think people who came into this country illegally or illegally overstayed a visa could be argued to be "outside the law" and maybe this could be stretched.
It cannot
If this argument was true, then if they committed crimes here we could not prosecute them. Does that make sense to you?
That's true for diplomats, and if you don't believe me, I cite Lethal Weapon 2
This post was edited on 12/8/24 at 11:05 am
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:05 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
There is not a lot of difference between MAGA and Progressivism. Both are activist and collective.
I dont think any care for the constitution.
From the responses on the Board, I am beginning to think you're right. I'm MAGA as are 90% of my friends. One thing upon which we all agree is that the principal thing that makes America great is the Constitution.
It's been eye-opening and disappointing to see Trump supporters attack adherence to the Constitution. Don't like something in the Constitution? Get it amended.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:06 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
From the responses on the Board, I am beginning to think you're right. I'm MAGA as are 90% of my friends. One thing upon which we all agree is that the principal thing that makes America great is the Constitution.
It's been eye-opening and disappointing to see Trump supporters attack adherence to the Constitution. Don't like something in the Constitution? Get it amended.
On your way to being called a Leftist for this comment
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:09 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
t's been eye-opening and disappointing to see Trump supporters attack adherence to the Constitution
This primarily comes from the ones who have been fooled into thinking there is going to be some vengeance coming to those in power.
Theyre going to be very disappointed.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:10 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's bad wording on that summary
So why did you link it? Why not allow the class to
quote:
read the ruling to see the contemporary textual analysis that guts whatever you'd throw at it today.
Is it because you're full of shite?
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:13 am to POTUS2024
quote:
I've posted this multiple times but people refuse to educate themselves on this issue.
Thanks for posting this POTUS. I am one of those who thinks the seemingly plain words of the 14th Amendment absolutely confirm citizenship even to persons born here to illegal aliens. I will dive into what you wrote.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:13 am to Major Dutch Schaefer
This one will be hard to get done but I support him 100%. The issue when they gave citizenship to former slaves it should have been stated as such and not the way it was written.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:13 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:
It's been eye-opening and disappointing to see Trump supporters attack adherence to the Constitution.
Anchor babies are not in the Constitution.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:18 am to POTUS2024
I have a different opinion. If you are not a legal resident or citizen you shouldn’t have any constitutional rights.
This post was edited on 12/8/24 at 8:49 pm
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:20 am to Stealth Matrix
quote:
So why did you link it?
In response to this comment
quote:
It's not precedent. It's a footnote.
He's relying on grifter analysis from Ann Coulter (later confirmed in a post), which I proved wrong by just citing the case. I also had to post it fast (I assumed it was the text) to make the joke work.
quote:
Is it because you're full of shite?
I did not write the order in the case.
If you disagree with the ruling, you need to piss on a few graves as the justices have been dead over a century at this point.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:21 am to POTUS2024
quote:
An EO is sufficient.
Until the next president comes in.
And if he has authority to do it, why didn’t he last time?
This post was edited on 12/8/24 at 11:22 am
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:21 am to POTUS2024
quote:
I've posted this multiple times but people refuse to educate themselves on this issue.
It's bad analysis by a grifter who ignores a contemporary USSC case that obliterates her argument.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 11:22 am to POTUS2024
quote:
Anchor babies are not in the Constitution.
The wording of the 14A covers them.
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