re: Poverty does not increase (violent) crime (Video)

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Definitely have to disagree with you. We have evidence all around us that our society does not exhibit self control, from drug and alcohol problems to obesity to free sex and porn (and abortion) to credit card debt. People don't want to have self control.

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But poor self control is not an absence of self control. I'm not disagreeing that self control is something that can be taught and improved, in fact it needs to be in order to maximize it.

I'm saying that there is innate neurophysiology basis for self control. The specific localization of it was identified when Phineas Gage after an iron rod went through is frontal lobe and his behavior changed dramatically.

Since then there is a ton of research that had identified the specific regions, and their development, as well as the neurotransmitters that are essential to these functions.

I was thinking more in terms of people not being able to control themselves and wanting their behaviors legalized so that they didn't have to pay a price for doing what they want to do. Marijuana, for instance. Abortion as another example.

More like they want to be responsible rather than the public to be responsible for their usage decisions and imprisonment.

I've had this discussion many times but the moral law of God does not speak about punishment for sin on earth. You quoted a ceremonial application of the moral law to the priestly and theocratic nation of Israel.

Again, I'm not talking about the desire for legalization. I'm talking about usage in spite of the negative legal consequences that they may face.

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Everyone exhibits some amount of self control but it must be learned through understanding causality and negative consequences via discipline.

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But the innate factors establish capability to learn self-control and establishes bounds. Even then, we can learn self-control but this innate factors are important to displaying under various circumstances (e.g., exteme stress).

So I'm not sure where your disagreement lies. All learning has an innate cognitive component; self-control is no different. All else being equal, some people will develop it better than others due to those innate factors.

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"Snowflakes" are an example of this dynamic.

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But this also speaks to the neurodevelopmental factors as well. The snowflakes are largely young and immature, and the areas of the brain associates with impulse control (frontal lobe) do not become fully developed until the early to mid 20's, sometimes later.

So what is the broader conclusion to be drawn from the study?

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It's still a small percentage, and even then, it's not completely an issue of self control. Just like earlier when you mentioned pre-marital sex: many people who have self control don't see anything wrong with it (like pot), so their behavior is often not a lack self control; it's a conscious choice that they deem acceptable. And if they use protection, that is evidence of self control in that circumstance.

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Not what I was referring to. There are a lot of behaviors that have negative consequences that people still participate in because they can't control themselves. I wasn't talking about pot from a moral perspective but from a legal one and its effects on those who get caught because they just had to smoke some. I wasn't talking exclusively about the lack of condom usage in sex, though that is something that is common and leads to thousands of unwanted pregnancies (and abortions) as well as STDs. Uncontrolled sexual urges also lead to ruined relationships and divorces. All those things add up to my actual point of people not controlling themselves even when they know that their actions could result in bad consequences.

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I wasn't talking about pot from a moral perspective but from a legal one and its effects on those who get caught because they just had to smoke some.

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Of course, those who are unable to control themselves when the risk of getting caught is high. Just like spending through a school zone is a higher risk than speeding but going with the flow of traffic on an interstate.

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Uncontrolled sexual urges also lead to ruined relationships and divorces. All those things add up to my actual point of people not controlling themselves even when they know that their actions could result in bad consequences.

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Of course, but this is my point about self control having a cognitive component. People can exhibit self control in most circumstances, yet can't in others. Self control isn't completely absent, but they can''t control it under certain circumstances or once the urge reaches a certain level.

Again. My point is that some of it is an innate lack of the necessary cognitive mechanisms to control behavior. It doesn't excuse it, but it explains it to some degree.

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So what is the broader conclusion to be drawn from the study?

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i'd say the real discussions are isolating things that create a larger GINI coefficient and create societal goals around those variables

instead of just assuming that poor people have no chance to develop and we should lower GC by redistribution and hoping this works, we should focus on trying to improve the lot and abilities of poor people by eliminating the behaviors that lead to this gap