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Started By
Message
re: "Please do not call Russia the aggressor in their war with Ukraine."
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:06 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:06 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:He apparently tweeted basically the same thing .... LINK
LINK?
quote:Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.
1
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:11 am to FLTech
quote:Perfect example of the false perceptions created by your safe little Trumpist bubble. Outside that bubble, PLENTY of Americans still consume content from the MSM.quote:Who cares? Nobody listens to them anymore
That will not go over well for the MSM and neocon world.
You are Pauline Kael in a red gimme cap.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
"Fully" opposed? Naw
The salient question was what is the Constitutional relevance to a 2014 coup d'état .... the latter of which is the transcendent element relative to the outbreak of respondent invasion?
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:11 am to TheShmoo
This is Animal Farm 101. Believe us, despite the clear evidence before your senses. It was a peaceful , loving protest. ‘Hang Mike Pence’ is a love chant!” “Russia is not the aggressor.” Despite the fact they invaded Ukraine. And the weak-minded will succumb to Jedi mind tricks designed to control the weak-minded.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:11 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Dec 15, 2013
Yeah the EU gave up once Yanukovych unilaterally signed the opposing trade deal with Russia
Yanukovych had already pulled Ukraine out himself in November
Ukraine poised to sign deals with Russia
quote:
European officials and diplomats believe that Ukraine’s President Viktor Yanukovych will sign economic deals with Russia on Tuesday (17 December), dampening residual hopes that he is prepared to undertake reforms in order secure emergency funding from the West.
If Yanukovych reaches agreement with Russia’s Vladimir Putin, possibly for loans, lower gas prices and joint economic projects, he would be acting, diplomatic sources say, as he said he would in conversations this week with Catherine Ashton, the European Union’s foreign policy chief.
Ashton met Yanukovych twice during her two-day visit to Kiev (10-11 December), including a meeting shortly before Yanukovych sent in riot police to remove barricades and disperse protestors camped out on the city’s central square, the Maidan.
Immediately after that meeting and before police entered the Maidan, Ashton told ambassadors that Yanukovych had made clear that he would strike deals with Putin in Moscow.
quote:
December 13, 2013
Ukraine pulled out, not the EU.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:He's interfering with Russian and Ukrainian elections? Really?
It is funny that Trump is adopting Obama's foreign policy in the region
LINK?
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:15 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
The salient question was what is the Constitutional relevance to a 2014 coup d'état ..
The salient question is if a coup occurred.
The Rada changed the Constitution to help Yanukovych and the conflict (as with the old Constitution they could just vote him out and not charge him criminally), and then voted him out.
The 2013 vote in support of EU intergration got 315 votes.
The vote to change the Constitution got 386 votes
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:16 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
He's interfering with Russian and Ukrainian elections? Really
Nope. Wasn't his policy. I linked the relevant policy
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:24 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Trump is advocating forceful regime change of a democratically elected government?
-----------
That was not Obama's policy in Ukraine in 2014
And that didn't happen
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:You need me to post more pictures of Toria Nuland heavily involved in Kyiv's Independence Square 12/2013 so you can again deny the pic were taken Dec'13? Or does that refresh your memory?
Nope. Wasn't his policy. I linked the relevant policy
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:32 am to TheShmoo
Is Mexico an "aggressor" in allowing/enabling the Cartels to attack the US? Context determines truth; and the sad truth is that Ukraine allowed their Democratic State to be corrupted in ways that threaten and harm Russia. Not that both Mexico and Russia would like to have land that they formerly owned, back in the own hands.
At some point the word games fade out and brute force assumes the decisive power. The US is in the process of cleaning out our bureaucratic criminal rot of both war and charity for profit. We'll see if it happens without it going to the streets soon enough. The guilty grifters will not just lay down and admit their sins.
At some point the word games fade out and brute force assumes the decisive power. The US is in the process of cleaning out our bureaucratic criminal rot of both war and charity for profit. We'll see if it happens without it going to the streets soon enough. The guilty grifters will not just lay down and admit their sins.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 11:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:You'd do well to check the details and ramifications of that action. Even playing the Constitution shell game they played, they did not remotely abide by rules of executive removal in the new version.
The vote to change the Constitution got 386 votes
It would be like a majority party in Congress sending the military after oppositionists forcing them into hiding or into compliance, then voting by a supermajority to remove a sitting POTUS. Might sound fine to a foreign lawyer on a message board, but it would not sniff Constitutional muster.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 12:00 pm to NC_Tigah
Obama Says Still No Ukraine Intervention As More Russians Cross Border
Obama opposed military intervention in Ukraine in 2014, even after Russia invaded and seized Crimea.
quote:
In the face of the most damning evidence to date that Russian troops and equipment have invaded Ukraine, President Barack Obama on Thursday stuck to previous statements that there is no military solution to the ongoing crisis there.
“We are not taking military action to solve the Ukrainian problem,” Obama said from the White House Thursday. “What we're doing is [mobilizing] the international community to apply pressure on Russia. But I think it is very important to recognize that a military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming.”
Early Thursday, NATO officials said Russia had sent more than 1,000 troops into Ukraine to join separatists fighting Ukrainian armed forces. NATO also released satellite imagery showing the movement of Russian artillery, vehicles and troops in and around Ukraine’s eastern border with Russia.
quote:
But Obama avoided using the word “invasion” on Thursday, preferring the less-confrontational categorization of Russian actions as a violation of Ukraine’s “sovereignty and territorial integrity.”
“I just spoke with Chancellor Merkel of Germany on the situation in Ukraine,” Obama said. “We agree, if there was ever any doubt, that Russia is responsible for the violence in Eastern Ukraine … As a result of the actions Russia has already taken and the major sanctions we've imposed with our European and international partners, Russia is already more isolated than at any time since the end of the Cold War.”
Obama opposed military intervention in Ukraine in 2014, even after Russia invaded and seized Crimea.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 12:03 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Even playing the Constitution shell game they played, they did not remotely abide by rules of executive removal in the new version.
The only reason they even engaged in this was to avoid further crisis, because the old one required criminal prosecution, and they didn't want to stoop to the Russian-style tactics.
I always find it funny that this gesture of propriety and peace is spun into evidence of some clandestine, nefarious plot
quote:
It would be like a majority party in Congress sending the military
The changing of the Constitution did not rely on the military at all.
quote:
forcing them into hiding or into compliance, then voting by a supermajority to remove a sitting POTUS.
This comparison would work as long as you ignore the 90%+_approval from 2013. They needed no force to maintain their position.
As I said in the other thread, what was the Western intervention, exactly? To make the Rada stay consistent? Because that's all that happened.
You see the narrative you have to rely upon (involving force) to make it look illegitimate, when that doesn't reflect the reality, either in spring 2013 or spring 2014.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 12:12 pm to TheShmoo
I will ignore him as I would anyone who says it...
Posted on 2/23/25 at 12:27 pm to TheShmoo
Russia isn't the aggressor. The EU is.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 12:32 pm to TheShmoo
He is negotiating. He and you know Putin is a piece of shite.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 12:50 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:The extinction of the POR absolutely did. The changing of the Constitution has zero relevance, because they did not follow it anyway.
The changing of the Constitution did not rely on the military at all.
quote:And yet that is exactly what they used. Why didn't the """90%""" go to Brussels and sign? Because ... wait4it .... that is not what the law allows.
This comparison would work as long as you ignore the 90%+_approval from 2013. They needed no force to maintain their position.
The question an intelligent guy should ask, is why would 90% of one of the most corrupt legislative bodies on the continent want to proceed with a deal that was so bad for their country at that time?
Posted on 2/23/25 at 1:12 pm to memphisplaya
quote:
Western Ukraine= pro EU
EasternUkraine/Donbas = pro Russia
Learn to read.this isn’t hard to understand once you realize Ukraine is one of the most corrupt nations since its founding In 1991.
Eastern Ukraine was made ethnically Russian during Stalin's and other Russification campaigns. Similar Russification programs in the Baltics are now being reversed.
The USSR probably would have collapsed earlier if it were not for corruption greasing the wheels of a machine that couldn't be made to work.
Posted on 2/23/25 at 2:09 pm to djsdawg
quote:
Safe to assume USAID was involved in that coup?
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