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re: Over 25% of Methodist churches abandon denomination as schism grows over LGBTQ+ issues
Posted on 12/30/23 at 10:46 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 12/30/23 at 10:46 am to FooManChoo
quote:
The belief that the Bible supports homosexuality is a new thing. The Bible is very clear on the subject and no one has disputed that—neither Christian nor Jew prior to Christ—until the last few decades when these “Christians” abandoned the Bible as their rule for faith and life.
But they insist that the Holy Spirit guided them to interpret the Bible to say that Gay Sex is just fine. They have not "abandoned" any Protestant methodology for finding Truth.
In fact, the Gay Sex proponents are using the exact same methodology for disputing YOUR Bible interpretation that Calvin and Luther used to dispute the Roman Catholic Bible interpretations.
How can this methodology be proper when Calvin and Luther find new "truth" but then be totally improper when the Gay Sex proponents find another new "truth"?
The only answer you'll be able to provide will be, just as always from you: because my interpretation is in agreement with what the Bible clearly says, which is EXACTLY the argument that the Pro Gay Sex folks will tell YOU.
0
Posted on 12/30/23 at 10:51 am to FooManChoo
Of course, you and I agree on the proper interpretation of the Bible on this issue. That's clear. The Roman Catholic Church has always agree with us on this issue. It is in the Catechism for all to read, no matter what any Priest or Pope says or does.
The problem that we have here is to understand how the PROTESTANT methodology for discerning Bible Truth is going to work when we put the spotlight on this issue. Two different sets of Protestant pastors insist two opposite interpretations of the same Bible passages and BOTH sides invoke the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as they preach the opposite points of view.
Pick your church. Pro Gay Sex? Fine. Go to THIS church. NO Gay Sex? Fine. Go to THIS church. BOTH will tell that the Bible clearly states that the OTHER side is wrong.
It's a problem.
The problem that we have here is to understand how the PROTESTANT methodology for discerning Bible Truth is going to work when we put the spotlight on this issue. Two different sets of Protestant pastors insist two opposite interpretations of the same Bible passages and BOTH sides invoke the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as they preach the opposite points of view.
Pick your church. Pro Gay Sex? Fine. Go to THIS church. NO Gay Sex? Fine. Go to THIS church. BOTH will tell that the Bible clearly states that the OTHER side is wrong.
It's a problem.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 3:51 pm to Champagne
bump so that we can continue to place the spotlight on this Protestant theological problem.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 4:59 pm to Champagne
Where are all of the Protestants who love to viciously attack the RCC?
Are you all not up for a little debate on YOUR religion's methodology?
But when it comes time to attack Catholics, that's like ringing a bell at dinner time for Pavlov's Dogs.
Are you all not up for a little debate on YOUR religion's methodology?
But when it comes time to attack Catholics, that's like ringing a bell at dinner time for Pavlov's Dogs.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:05 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
Are you implying that a person who is not going to church but otherwise has a fullfilling, satisfying and reverent life without needing the church can't be close to God
I don't know about him, but I will state that you can't be an obedient Christian if you aren't serving others and encouraging other Christians as part of some kind of community of believers.
Going to church isn't about what you get out of it. It's about what you contribute to it.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:08 pm to Deuces
quote:
I know they like to argue against the translations from Greek, but this translation seems like it would be pretty hard to misinterpret.
quote:
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another
And homosexual relations did happen in these times. Paul was aware of this.
Even the progressive historians that wrote my college textbooks say that even some Spartans engaged in homosexuality over a thousand years before Paul’s epistles were written.
Sure.
Like I said, I'm not aware of a single reputable scholar who agrees with any of the popular claims.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:10 pm to Champagne
quote:
Yours is as cogent an explanation as I've yet read. Thank you.
You're welcome.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:10 pm to Champagne
So you’re saying humans are the problem?
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:18 pm to Champagne
quote:
In other words, we are back to Protestantism's fundamental flaw - the Bible says whatever any person says that it says.
O.k., but the flaw of Catholicism is that the Bible says whatever one specific person says it is. So Catholics don't even have any choice about participating in heresy when the Pope decides to commit it.
Both are problems. Between the two, I'll take the first.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:18 pm to L.A.
quote:
Over 25% of Methodist churches abandon denomination as schism grows over LGBTQ+ issues
Many of the churches who have elected to "stay" have seen large portions of their membership leave.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:23 pm to Champagne
quote:
the Bible says whatever any person says that it says.
This is a flaw of humans. The inability to admit what the Bible actually says is a sinful act that is perpetrated throughout human existence, not just in protestant denominations.
This is actually a major flaw with the Catholic Church because many central tenants of Catholicism are clearly and obviously shown as false in the Bible. Such as the hierarchy of the Pope, bishops, etc, the separation of priests and the nuns from the gift of marriage, the idea that the Catholic Church is the one true church, the lie that Mary was a perpetual virgin, the idea that saints can intercede on your behalf, the list goes on.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:33 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
This is actually a major flaw with the Catholic Church because many central tenants of Catholicism are clearly and obviously shown as false in the Bible
in your Bible based on your interpretation of that Bible.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:38 pm to gaetti15
quote:
in your Bible based on your interpretation of that Bible.
Well no, actually. In the Bible that clearly does not support any of the Catholic beliefs I mentioned.
This post was edited on 12/30/23 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:43 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
Well no, actually. In the Bible that clearly does not support any of the Catholic beliefs I mentioned.
you made a claim, show your work. Evangelize me
This post was edited on 12/30/23 at 5:44 pm
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:48 pm to gaetti15
quote:
you made a claim, show your work. Evangelize me
Show what work? None of the items I mentioned are in the Bible. There's nothing to show. They simply don't exist. They can't be supported Biblically.
This post was edited on 12/30/23 at 5:49 pm
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:51 pm to imjustafatkid
Posted on 12/30/23 at 5:54 pm to gaetti15
one of the ones I will agree on you with is marriage for priests.
this is a tradition of the Roman rite, not other rites within the Catholic church.
from my understanding, this is not infallible and can be changed in the future.
this is a tradition of the Roman rite, not other rites within the Catholic church.
from my understanding, this is not infallible and can be changed in the future.
Posted on 12/30/23 at 6:20 pm to gaetti15
Did you even read those links? They really have to reach to make those connections.
"Those aren't really Jesus' siblings! Just because the Bible says so doesn't make it so! Watch as I pretend that's not what it says!" The Bible clearly states Joseph did not have relations with Mary until Jesus was born and even goes so far as to name Mary as the mother of two other men. Tellingly, your link completely ignores these two men and that passage. Because this must be ignored for this belief to be held.
This belief is completely blasphemous. Only Jesus has the power to intercede on our behalf. The worship of saints is one of the most egregious heresies of the Catholic Church.
Here, the article makes the argument for missionaries and priests/pastors/heads of churches/whatever you want to call them. That is clearly Biblical and isn't the problem with the structure of the Catholic Church.
quote:
mary being a perpetual virgin
"Those aren't really Jesus' siblings! Just because the Bible says so doesn't make it so! Watch as I pretend that's not what it says!" The Bible clearly states Joseph did not have relations with Mary until Jesus was born and even goes so far as to name Mary as the mother of two other men. Tellingly, your link completely ignores these two men and that passage. Because this must be ignored for this belief to be held.
quote:
intercession of Saints
This belief is completely blasphemous. Only Jesus has the power to intercede on our behalf. The worship of saints is one of the most egregious heresies of the Catholic Church.
quote:
bishops, papacy
Here, the article makes the argument for missionaries and priests/pastors/heads of churches/whatever you want to call them. That is clearly Biblical and isn't the problem with the structure of the Catholic Church.
This post was edited on 12/30/23 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 12/30/23 at 6:22 pm to Azkiger
quote:
It's a virus...
More like a mental illness
Posted on 12/30/23 at 6:24 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Going to church isn't about what you get out of it. It's about what you contribute to it.
Ask not what Jesus can do for you. Ask what you can do for Jesus.
(Although I prefer the We Choose The Moon speech in this context.)
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