re: Oh No Vaxx Bros! They're saying we're infectious!

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But that ignores the fact that the vaccinated are less likely to have a breakthrough case then an unvaccinated (without natural immunity)

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Great, can I get my unvaccinated with immunity card please?

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Absolutely a good idea. Might need a doctor's sign off to tap down forgeries and quality control.

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This has been known for months.

The only thing the vaccines do is lessen symptoms and improve outcomes, but that’s a pretty big deal.

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Not true. They also make if far more likely that you won't have a breakthrough infection to begin with.

By only measuring viral loads of breakthrough infections, we are selecting a small subset of vaccinated people.

When most vaccinated people encounter the virus, their body fights it off and they are not even considered in the breakthrough category.

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The problem is the "Covid Shot" is actually pretty dangerous to a lot of people. I have not heard of the flu shot killing people, but maybe it has.

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Well heck if zerohedge told you it was dangerous...

Most responses are mild (like any vaccine).

CDC deaths are extremely rare

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Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 386 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 20, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,899 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths pdf icon[1.4 MB, 40 pages].

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Here is the PDF mentioned above about TTS

Basically there have been 28 cases of TTS linked to COVID vaccine (all J&J). Three have resulted in death.

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The problem is the "Covid Shot" is actually pretty dangerous to a lot of people. I have not heard of the flu shot killing people, but maybe it has.

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Yes, people do die of the flu shot. It is rare but almost all vaccines carry a small risk.

My uncle had Guillain Barre after receiving the flu shot. He is convinced it was caused by the flu shot. I think it may have been but it may have been caused by any sort of infection. (Anything that triggers your immune system can cause Guillain Barre as GB happens when your immune system overreacts and attacks your nerves.)

My uncle lived but my dad also developed Guillain Barre a couple of years later and did not live through it. His was not caused by any vaccination but instead was a consequence of sepsis.

For the record, in his family three people have had Guillain Barre, two of whom died. Despite a clear genetic or environmental risk that may share with them, I didn't hesitate to get the COVID shot.

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Studies so far show that vaccinated people are 8 times less likely to be infected and 25 times less likely to experience hospitalization or death. Vaccines remain effective in protecting most people from COVID-19 infection and its complications.

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Is this the same CDC that until recently was saying that a vaccinated person that had a breakthrough case was less likely to infect another person?

Using CDC numbers, that a vaccinated person is 25 times less likely to die than an unvaccinated person, we can conclude that an unvaccinated person is very unlikely to die from Covid - less likely than with the flu.

Per the CDC, 99.74% of unvaccinated people recover. If the vaccinated are 25x less likely to die, that means the unvaccinated have about a 99.99% chance of surviving, regardless of whether they got it from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person. 99.74 for unvaccinated vs 99.99 for vaccinated. Correct?

And what if it turns out that there ARE severe long term side effects, like stroke, neurological disease, or any number of life altering/ending conditions? Is that worth mandating the vax?

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That is a therapeutic not a vaccine.

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Don't we have therapeutics that work, as shown by many studies, but are being denied to people because of CDC recommendations?

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And what if it turns out that there ARE severe long term side effects, like stroke, neurological disease, or any number of life altering/ending conditions? Is that worth mandating the vax?

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You have never seen me post that I am pro-mandate. I have explicitly stated Biden's proposed mandate is a ridiculous overreach both of federal authority and expanding OSHA laws until they are meaningless.

That does not mean I a pro-made up nonsense either.

Most vaccine threads on here have a pattern:
-OP posts some anti-vax nonsense as fact
-several posters jump on board as it validates their beliefs.
-one or two people point out the flaws in the OP.
-posters then either ignore those flaws or fallback to the "well that still doesn't justify a mandate" position.

I can let a lot of bad arguments slide. But just pushing vaccine nonsense at best makes conservatives look stupid, and at worst could lead someone to make an ill informed decision about their own health.

And there is plenty of reasonable positions to push: better research on immunity of the COVID recovered (I posted in this thread they should get some kind of card like the vaccinated get), more research into various treatments (you have never seen me attack ivermectin for example), etc.

But at least some basic review before people posted would be nice to see before regurgitating whatever people saw on social media.

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But at least some basic review before people posted would be nice to see before regurgitating whatever people saw on social media.

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I try to seek the truth. My opinion is jaded by the fact that we are continuously lied to by our own government.

I'm not anti-vax. I am anti-mandate and I want to wait until the wheel stops spinning before I decide. I had Covid, so I will, in all likelihood never get the vaccine, unless it is clearly the best option for me at some point.

If this vaccine turns out to have no long term side effects, then I am more inclined to take an mRNA vaccine for the next virus that comes along. But because of natural immunities, I am sitting this one out, but some people don't want me to have that option...

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And there is plenty of reasonable positions to push: better research on immunity of the COVID recovered (I posted in this thread they should get some kind of card like the vaccinated get), more research into various treatments (you have never seen me attack ivermectin for example), etc.

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We should also do more research into how India was able to beat the Delta variant, despite having single digit vaccination rates. There are other countries that are doing far better than us, as well.

If only every suggestion made didn't seem to align with pharmaceutical companies making billions of dollars. They never suggest the obvious, like losing weight, taking a vitamin regimen, or spending time outdoors. Every recommendation by our government for combatting the disease requires paying money to a pharmaceutical company, whether you have Covid-19 or not.