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NYT op-ed: Trump deserves some credit on the collapse and defeat of ISIS
Posted on 12/16/17 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 12/16/17 at 5:50 pm
A war Trump Won
quote:
There is nothing more characteristic of the Trump era, with its fire hose of misinformation, scandal and hyperbole, than that America and its allies recently managed to win a war that just two years ago consumed headlines and dominated political debate and helped Donald Trump himself get elected president — and somehow nobody seemed to notice.
I mean the war against the Islamic State, whose expansion was the defining foreign policy calamity of Barack Obama’s second term, whose executions of Americans made the U.S.A. look impotent and whose utopian experiment drew volunteers drunk on world-historical ambitions and metaphysical dreams. Its defeat was begun under Obama, and the hardest fighting has been done by Iraqis — but this was an American war too, and we succeeded without massive infusions of ground troops, without accidentally getting into a war with Russia, and without inspiring a huge wave of terrorism in the West.
quote:
Why haven’t we noticed this success? One reason is the nature of our victory: As Max Abrahms and John Glaser wrote recently in the Los Angeles Times, the defeat of the Islamic State didn’t happen the way many foreign policy hawks envisioned, because it didn’t require also going to war with Bashar al-Assad or creating a new Syrian opposition army.
quote:
a war-weary assumption that if you crush one terrorist group another just springs up (true to a point, but crushing an ambitious terrorist state is still a real achievement); a popular appetite for bad news that leaves little room for celebrating victory;
quote:
But this is also a press failure, a case where the media is not adequately reporting an important success because it does not fit into the narrative of Trumpian disaster in which our journalistic entities are all invested.
quote:
But all punditry is provisional, and for now, the Trump administration’s approach to the Middle East has been moderately successful, and indeed close to what I would have hoped for from a normal Republican president following a realist-internationalist course.
quote:
In particular, Trump has avoided the temptation often afflicting Republican uber-hawks, in which we’re supposed to fight all bad actors on 16 fronts at once. Instead he’s slow-walked his hawkish instincts on Iran, tolerated Assad and avoided dialing up tensions with Russia. The last issue is of course entangled with the great collusion debate — but it’s still a good thing that our mini-cold war has remained relatively cool and we aren’t strafing each other over Syria.
quote:
if you had told me in late 2016 that almost a year into the Trump era the caliphate would be all-but-beaten without something far worse happening in the Middle East, I would have been surprised and gratified. So very provisionally, credit belongs where it’s due — to our soldiers and diplomats, yes, but to our president as well.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 5:56 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I am pleased with their collapse. Obama failed biggly on this front.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 5:58 pm to asurob1
I have so little trust in the media I wouldn't know if we really have diminished them or not. I guess since CNN isn't constantly attacking Trump on his failed Isis policies, something positive must actually be happening on that front.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 5:58 pm to asurob1
quote:Maybe at first, but ISIS was losing huge ground during the last months of his presidency.
Obama failed biggly on this front.
Our media hasn't covered it at all which is sad.
The article points out it may be because you cannot truly "beat" terrorists- another group will just pop up.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:06 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
"In particular, Trump has avoided the temptation often afflicting Republican uber-hawks, in which we’re supposed to fight all bad actors on 16 fronts at once. Instead he’s slow-walked his hawkish instincts on Iran, tolerated Assad and avoided dialing up tensions with Russia. The last issue is of course entangled with the great collusion debate — but it’s still a good thing that our mini-cold war has remained relatively cool and we aren’t strafing each other over Syria."
In other words, Trump continued Obama's policy.
Ok, if you can pat T on the back then can you pat O too?
This post was edited on 12/16/17 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:15 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Maybe at first, but ISIS was losing huge ground during the last months of his presidency.
They've been losing ground since 2015 in earnest.
People don't seem to want to acknowledge the role of avowed enemies in Iran and Hezbollah and geopolitical rivals such as Russia in turning the war against ISIS.
Let us ask ourselves this question. If the US had no involvement, would the course of the war been different? The answer for me is no, as the key events are the Russian assistance and the fatwa by Sistani to form the PMF, two events which gave the SAA and the Iraqi armed forces a lifeline. The US had no effect on those two events, and we've fought a war in Iraq for in effect very little, as Iraq and Iran grew very close, especially after the fatwa, as the militias are split, broadly, between forces that support Ayatollah Sistani and forces that support Iranian Ayatollahs.
If not for ISIS's use of terrorism in the West, I don't think the US would be so eager to declare victory over ISIS. The combination of that and the role that Iranians, Hezbollah and the Russians played make overstating the role important in a narrative sense.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:20 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
Ok, if you can pat T on the back then can you pat O too?
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Slowly but surely more press getting coats I think
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:25 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Maybe at first, but ISIS was losing huge ground during the last months of his presidency.
In Iraq yes but not at all in Syria. Even in Iraq they were just starting the Mosul campaign iirc at that time.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:55 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
In other words, Trump continued Obama's policy.
Ok, if you can pat T on the back then can you pat O too?
The real point here is that it is ANOTHER illustration of how you can't trust any of the MSM.
No matter who you'd like to credit, there is no avoiding that over a year ago, the MSM painted a story where we should all fear Trump just going all crazy and drawing us into an expanded Mid-East war.
Now that it didn't happen and good shite has occurred, it's like the Press doesn't even remember who ISIS was.
THAT is VERY telling.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:58 pm to ShortyRob
Trump has been great in Foreign Policy and the Economy, if one has to be objective.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 6:59 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Maybe at first, but ISIS was losing huge ground during the last months of his presidency.
One reason it wasn't reported was because the disaster policy that caused ISIS's spread was formulated and enacted in Hillary's State Department. If the media started reporting that the massive shift in policy resulted in suppressing ISIS, voters would have been tuned into just how bad Clinton was as SOS.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 7:13 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Trump won with Obama’s recruits.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 7:43 pm to ShortyRob
As some earlier posters have said, the groundwork for the defeat of ISIS was laid by the powers that be during Obama's term and the noose had been tightened before Trump came into office.
With no heads being cut off on camera there were no headlines. That is just the nature of our modern sensationalist corporate media.....not necessarily an anti-Trump agenda.
Are you saying that Fox News is not reporting this event either?
While I will give Trump credit for not messing this up I don't much remember him being portrayed as a War Hawk by the media.....the media that I watched eviscerated HRC as being a War Hawk.
With no heads being cut off on camera there were no headlines. That is just the nature of our modern sensationalist corporate media.....not necessarily an anti-Trump agenda.
Are you saying that Fox News is not reporting this event either?
While I will give Trump credit for not messing this up I don't much remember him being portrayed as a War Hawk by the media.....the media that I watched eviscerated HRC as being a War Hawk.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 8:34 pm to CamdenTiger
quote:
Trump has been great in Foreign Policy and the Economy, if one has to be objective.
Which is all that matters soo
Posted on 12/16/17 at 8:37 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
the media that I watched eviscerated HRC as being a War Hawk
They didn't go nearly far enough into her tenure as SOS - which was an unmitigated disaster.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 8:43 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Trump deserves some credit on the collapse and defeat of ISIS
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:15 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
without inspiring a huge wave of terrorism in the West.
I would argue that Obama being so weak and indecisive against ISIS is actually one reason out of several that encouraged and propagated this rash of terrorism in the west.
Trump made no such distinction against ISIS and promised to spare no quarter against them and the results speaks for themselves.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:19 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
.the media that I watched eviscerated HRC as being a War Hawk.
Well even while shilling for her big time, it was pretty goddamn hard to miss her saber rattling like hell for war with Russia and this was pretty much apparent if you remember watching the third debate in Vegas.
Hillary wanted to enact a no fly zone over a huge majority of Syria and there was no way in hell the Russians were going to respect or tolerate that.
Posted on 12/16/17 at 9:28 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Is NYT fake news or no? I need to know how much cred to give this.
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