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Message
re: Nation’s poorest states have Republican legislatures; richest have Democrat
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:40 am to volod
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:40 am to volod
quote:
Nothing you or I said can remotely be considered socialist.
Demanding that the federal government own, fund, operate, and control the systems of education and health care is literally part of the definition of socialism.
quote:
The US is the one of the only places where you have to be rich enough to afford decent healthcare.
This is one of the absolute biggest and most repeated lies of the 21st century.
1
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:43 am to Nguyener
quote:
You can go to elementary and high school for free. Not everyone can or should go to college. That is a stupid concept that makes no sense. The federal government needs to get completely out of higher education. The world needs construction workers, plumbers, electricians, hvac techs, etc. And those people do not need to go to college for free for no reason other than for you to feel good about yourself. If you want to go to college then you pay for it yourself. If that's too hard then you don't deserve to go anyway
While I generally agree with this, we need to lower tuition before this is possible. Its simply not feasible for people out high school to pay for college with minimum wade jobs at modern rates. If we get government out, will colleges lower their cost.
And if we quality control teachers and pay them more, we could have a better high school system without DOE
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:48 am to volod
quote:
Only reasons I can assume
1) People on hear honestly believe the market is like 40 years ago before jobs started demanding degrees and higher requirements. Or they live in glass houses since they are successful, have social circles of other upper class people and pay for private schools.
2)Worse case, they know better but honestly dont care. As long as the "undesirables" and poor stay in their place and dont bother them.
I honestly believe in some cases it's both. But I also try to be empathetic and I've come to a third and fourth conclusion.
I think some of them are genuinely afraid and things like communism and socialism and that shapes all of their views and what they're susceptible to. To be honest pure communism or socialism are very bad idea but it's an idea that nobody is actually suggesting.
All of their leaders and media members peddle fear and they eat it up. I believe most conservatives are actually good people who just get really scared about things that aren't real.
Though to be honest I'm starting to feel like the left is acting very similarly. My family is just posting stuff on Facebook everyday about stopping this country from being lost to Nazis. Just crazy stuff.
quote:
I agree with most of your posts
You are in the small minority, my friend. LOL
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:48 am to StringedInstruments
Minorities tend to be poorer than whites. Minorities tend to vote Democrat. The poor states controlled by Republicans tend to have disproportionately large minority populations.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:49 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
Why wouldn't the medical industry cater more to the unhealthy?
There is a difference between being sick and being willingly unhealthy. And as in all things, the government should not reward or force me to pay for some idiot's terrible choices.
If you have a terminal illness or some treatable disease then you are sick and, yes you should be able to get help paying your medical bills.
If you eat domino's pizza and drink a 2 litre of coke every day then you are unhealthy and if you cannot afford your diabetes medication or blood pressure medication or a monthly doctor visit for joint pains and breathing problems then you either lose weight and get healthy or you die. The government shouldn't subsidize your fat arse at the expense of the tax payer and the people who actually need those funds. Do we agree?
This applies to smokers, fat people, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:50 am to Nguyener
quote:
Demanding that the federal government own, fund, operate, and control the systems of education and health care is literally part of the definition of socialism
This is akin to me saying the US is a totalitarian imperialist empire because it has military bases all over the world and is in perpetual wars.
It's a matter of context.
The current system of education has failing high schools in both inner and rural communities.
And people can get emergency medical service provided they take out huge amounts of debt.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:52 am to Nguyener
quote:
There is a difference between being sick and being willingly unhealthy. And as in all things, the government should not reward or force me to pay for some idiot's terrible choices.
1. We are the govt
2. How would anyone in the medical industry be able to differentiate between someone who makes poor choices and someone who is genuinely sick? And how can you be genuinely sick and it be exclusive to only being from good choices?
quote:
you eat domino's pizza and drink a 2 litre of coke every day then you are unhealthy and if you cannot afford your diabetes medication or blood pressure medication or a monthly doctor visit for joint pains and breathing problems then you either lose weight and get healthy or you die. The government shouldn't subsidize your fat arse at the expense of the tax payer and the people who actually need those funds. Do we agree?
This applies to smokers, fat people, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc.
I mean I see your point but wouldn't a more educated Society with better Healthcare be less inclined to live super unhealthy? I mean there would definitely still be a bunch of Knuckleheads but overall I would have to imagine there would be a lot less of that.
PS - so Jesus can die for your sins but you can't pay an extra $5 a month because a handful of people eat too much Domino's?
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 12:54 am
Posted on 10/22/18 at 12:56 am to volod
quote:
While I generally agree with this, we need to lower tuition before this is possible.
1. Get the federal government out of higher education and guarantee loans and tuition will drop.
2. Community College is very affordable.
quote:
Its simply not feasible for people out high school to pay for college with minimum wade jobs at modern rates.
1. Yes it is. You can go to community College night school and work full time right out of high school.
2. It is extremely easy for a high school graduate to get a job paying higher than minimum wage.
3. If you don't want to go to community College then you can get a scholarship. Get a job and save up for years then go. Go to night school. Take out a loan. Go be a plumber and work your arse off your whole life and then send your kids to college and set your family up for success.
I had a great opportunity to go to college after high school because my grandfather, who went to shitty public school and didn't go to college at all, and my dad, who went to slightly better school thanks to my grandfather and attended night school while working full time when I was an adolescent worked their asses off their entire lives to set me up for success. And I have continued to work my arse off to set my children up for success.
The government cannot just step in and replace generational family building and you cannot demand a short cut to success as the expense of my pocketbook.
If you cannot afford college then go work your arse off every day and save money and give your kids better opportunity than you had. Don't just demand the government come subsidize your family problems.
quote:
If we get government out, will colleges lower their cost.
Yes. Government gets out. Enrollment drops. Tuition drops to attract more students. Free market balances itself out.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 1:06 am
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:08 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
think some of them are genuinely afraid and things like communism and socialism and that shapes all of their views and what they're susceptible to.
I'm not afraid of socialism or communism. I think national government is the pinnacle of corruption, waste, and inept bureaucratic bloat.
Name me a federal government program run with more efficiency, less waste, and better results than its free market counter part and I'll discuss government owned and operated universal control health care
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 1:10 am
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:10 am to Ebbandflow
quote:Who is advocating banning education?
I also don't understand why you guys are so dead set against education and health care for everyone.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:11 am to volod
quote:
This is akin to me saying the US is a imperialist empire because it has military bases all over the world and is in perpetual wars.
FIFY and you are correct.
quote:
The current system of education has failing high schools in both inner and rural communities.
This is always going to happen and no amount of government funding or control or regulation is ever going to end poverty and failure. That is a fact of reality.
Failure and poverty are overcome by hard work and personal responsibility not government compliance.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 1:24 am
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:12 am to Nguyener
quote:
1. Yes it is. You can go to community College night school and work full time right out of high school.
2. It is extremely easy for a high school graduate to get a job paying higher than minimum wage.
3. If you don't want to go to community College then you can get a scholarship. Get a job and save up for years then go. Go to night school. Take out a loan. Go be a plumber and work your whole life and then send your kids to college.
I'm considering going back to school. Night school sounds good. The only problem I see is that not all programs are offered at night. I guess it depends on what you go into.
I can see how a high schooler can make more than minimum wage, but how common is that. You have little to no bargaining and are likely competing with college grads for even low tier jobs (unfortunately). Although the current economy is ironing this out.
You updated your post. Yes I agree that government isn't the answer to everything. However, if you take my money in taxes I should have a say.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:13 am to Ebbandflow
quote:So you're an advocate of equal taxation? Take the cost of education and healthcare and divide it equally across all citizens?
I believe that education and Health Care should be paid for by everyone.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:13 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
All of their leaders and media members peddle fear and they eat it up. I believe most conservatives are actually good people who just get really scared about things that aren't real.
This is a God damned lie.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:15 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
All of their leaders and media members peddle fear and they eat it up. I believe most conservatives are actually good people who just get really scared about things that aren't real.
Sure. No one using irrational fear on the democrat side. Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:17 am to volod
quote:So $1 in taxes paid = 1 vote?
However, if you take my money in taxes I should have a say.
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:17 am to Nguyener
quote:
Name me a federal government program run with more efficiency, less waste, and better results than its free market counter part and I'll discuss government owned and operated universal control health care
FDA, FEMA, CIA, NASA, FBI, CDC, EPA, MARINE CORPS, IRS.... we can probably limit it to those for now
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:22 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
How would anyone in the medical industry be able to differentiate between someone who makes poor choices and someone who is genuinely sick?
Are you serious?
You don't think the medical profession has any way to tell the difference between lung cancer from pollution, heredity, etc... And cigarette smoke?
quote:
wouldn't a more educated Society with better Healthcare be less inclined to live super unhealthy?
How much more education and health care do you think Americans need the they currently dont have access to?
People make stupid unhealthy decisions. No amount of government administration will change that.
quote:
so Jesus can die for your sins but you can't pay an extra $5 a month because a handful of people eat too much Domino's?
Jesus died so that we may all enter his kingdom after this life. His kingdom is not of this world.
Personal freedom and responsibility are important. If you choose to waste your life and abuse you freedom I shouldn't have to pay for it.
This post was edited on 10/22/18 at 1:37 am
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:34 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
FDA, FEMA, CIA, NASA, FBI, CDC, EPA, MARINE CORPS, IRS.
What are the comparable free market alternatives to these agencies? And how does the government beat them?
Posted on 10/22/18 at 1:51 am to Nguyener
quote:
What are the comparable free market alternatives to these agencies? And how does the government beat them?
My point was there are things govt provides that the market wasn't meant to.
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