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Started By
Message
re: Nathan Bedford Forest bust to be removed from TN capitol
Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:26 pm to GeauxVols
Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:26 pm to GeauxVols
quote:
I prefer to think of myself as an American, a Tennessean, and a Southerner by default.
I can understand that, and not to say that you are wrong, I do not suggest or believe that, but I would have said something similar when I was younger.
I travelled a lot, and I moved a lot, for school, and later work, and I saw a lot of the country.
I lived up and down the East Coast, I lived in Maine, and Massachusetts, and I was in NYC, I spent time in Chicago, and I lived out West.
There were things I loved, and things I didn’t like, but one of the constants, was the realization that we are not one people. We are many peoples. And my culture and values are not universal. I’m a vestige of that old antebellum culture. Much watered down, but still, stubbornly, here. And the things I really love about my world, are so specifically tied to Virginia. I am who I am, not because I was born in America, but because I was born in Virginia.
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 3:28 pm
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Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:42 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:They believe these "great" men were simply victims of their times. History may judge me(others) harshly due to my pro Choice abortion stance & I'm fine with it.
Tons of other Americans had the opposite "morals" of Forrest contemporaneously with him. He lost. Next.
I don't judge people like Forrest by today's standards, but to their peers. Confederates fall short.
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 7/21/21 at 3:55 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
was as bad as portrayed.
It absolutely was not.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 4:02 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Tons of other Americans had the opposite "morals" of Forrest contemporaneously with him. He lost. Next.
Perhaps 1% of Northerners believed Blacks were equal to whites. It was an extreme position at that time.
Northerners believed that free labor, paid labor, was morally superior to slavery. But that black slaves were their morally inferiors.
There was strong opposition to freeing slaves. And strong opposition to the movement of former slaves into the North.
If it wasn’t for the war, and the desire to defeat the Confederacy, Lincoln wouldn’t have been able to get support for the emancipation proclamation.
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 7/21/21 at 5:16 pm to Pdubntrub
quote:If anything, the worst aspects are absolutely glossed over.
It absolutely was not.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 5:44 pm to Eli Goldfinger
and just like that, he never existed
Posted on 7/21/21 at 6:05 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
anything, the worst aspects are absolutely glossed over.
Where are you getting this from? There's plenty of literature on this. There were isolated incidents of ruthlessness but def not the norm. What you're pretending happened here did happen all over the America's but not in the US.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 7:28 pm to Pdubntrub
quote:The separation of families was barely taught to me at all in school. And I believe it is still an under-known part of the entire experience. I'm not "pretending" like that happened. It was part and parcel of the institution.
Where are you getting this from? There's plenty of literature on this. There were isolated incidents of ruthlessness but def not the norm. What you're pretending happened here did happen all over the America's but not in the US.
And the sexual predation of master on slave was probably, if anything, worse than the bit we've learned about Sally Hemmings et all.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 7:40 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
And the sexual predation of master on slave was probably, if anything, worse than the bit we've learned about Sally Hemmings et all.
Jefferson didn’t have a sexual relationship with Sally Hemmings.
That’s left wing pornography.
This post was edited on 7/21/21 at 7:40 pm
Posted on 7/21/21 at 7:55 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The separation of families was barely taught to me at all in school
Yes, this happened. Oddly enough Nathan Bedford Forrest wouldn't seperate families. He'd put em to work on one of his plantations, he was a millionaire in that time. He allowed a slave to run at least one his plantations. Slaves with certain skills were allowed to use their skills to make money in the evenings after their normal work was done. Slaves also took up Christianity, which is an obvious sign in itself.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 9:20 pm to PJinAtl
quote:
A very uncomfortable truth is that a slave in the 18th and 19th centuries was a capital investment
An equally uncomfortable truth is that slaves who came to North America were truly the lucky ones (inasmuch as someone sold into slavery could be considered "lucky"). The relatively small amount who came to the U.S. fared much better (as far as surviving) than the vastly larger numbers sent to South America and the Carribean, or those who were taken across the Sahara by the Muslims. The American view of slaves as a personal capital investment-- rather than a piece of imperial, sultanate, or corporate property-- likely helped contribute to their better outcomes in the U.S. compared to their brethren who went elsewhere.
Thomas Sowell wrote a book on this.
Posted on 7/21/21 at 10:46 pm to Crimsonmarine
Remember, the victors wrote the history.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 1:00 am to psk_Vol
quote:
No clue what his specific title was, just know that he is credited with founding the Ku Klux Klann. A stain to the legacy of our state and country
This is wrong. People shouldn't take their history lessons from Hollywood.
The Klan was formed in 1865. Forrest joined in 1866 and became Grand Wizard in 1867.
In an interview, Forrest said the Klan's purpose was to oppose Republican state governments and carpetbaggers and scalawags. These are the people that were responsible for oppressing the South through federal force during Reconstruction.
As already stated, Forrest left the Klan in 1869. In 1875, he was publicly supporting racial reconciliation.
Most of the "history" about NBF is lies and propaganda.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 1:42 am to Eli Goldfinger
quote:
Nathan Bedford Forest
quote:
One of the state’s most prominent and earliest democrats.
Dammn!. You Republicans are persecuting us democrats.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 3:59 am to Rebel
quote:that’s so messed up. Who cares what someone did just let them be
They just dug up his and his wife’s bodies a month or so ago.
I hope spirits are real and he and his wife haunt them till the end of their days
This post was edited on 7/22/21 at 4:00 am
Posted on 7/22/21 at 12:16 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
In 1850, an average slave in America cost the equivalent of $40,000 in today's money.
LINK
quote:
January 2018 marks the 210th anniversary of a major milestone in the history of the United States, and the history of Charleston in particular. On the first day of January, 1808, a new Federal law made it illegal to import captive people from Africa into the United States.
LINK
Whites owned slaves, as did Blacks and American Indians.
Slavery was an awful institution with many opportunities for abuse. however, most people do not intentionally damage an asset that has a value of $40,000.
Either way,
was an excellent retort.This post was edited on 7/22/21 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 7/22/21 at 12:22 pm to AUauditor
quote:Yes, and?
Whites owned slaves, as did Blacks and American Indians.
quote:Nobody is disputing the belabored commentary on slaves as capital assets.
Slavery was an awful institution with many opportunities for abuse. however, most people do not intentionally damage an asset that has a value of $40,000.
I'm saying slavery has not been depicted as worse than it actually was. It's a silly talking point and a dumb hill to die on.
Posted on 7/22/21 at 12:42 pm to stout
quote:
Due to his history, I don't disagree with this at all. However, I do still think it's hard to judge historical figures by the morals of today.
Agreed completely but the fort pillow massacre was controversial and widely condemned even by the standards of his day though
Posted on 7/22/21 at 2:54 pm to Confederate Brass
quote:
Jim Crow Laws were FORCED upon the South by Abraham Lincoln himself
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