re: MTG championing rollback of HVAC refrigerant restrictions

Bring back R-12.

quote:

---

The never refrigerants are not as energy efficient as the previous ones

You will use more kW/h for same cooling. But they are better “green” gases

---

Cite?

Everything I have read (technical) indicates both R454b and R32 have better heat transfer properties than 410a. The actual efficiency, like all refrigerants, depends on the implementation.


I hate when someone calls the new refrigerants flammable without context, while technically true (they are mildly flammable), it takes quite a bit to ignite them and nothing compared to having a propane or natural gas appliance in the home.


That being said I hate the constant mandated changes. I did get my HVAC contractor (family) to buy and set aside 80lb of Puron for me. It was just under $1k.

quote:

---

Can we do shite that matters

---

HVACs going out is financially devastating for most families. Repairing old units cheaply is basically illegal so you are forced to buy a 10k (and rising) new unit.

This shite absolutely matters.

It’s a fricking rip off is what it is. Nobody voted on this…just like cafe standards screwing up cars…or banning regular light bulbs or restricting gas stoves. Just decisions made by unelected technocrats based on grift and climate agendas that impact everyone.

The actual bill needs to restrict agencies from banning or regulating products without congressional approval.

quote:

---

Don’t they operate at much higher pressures? My HVAC friend said that he expected far less life out of a unit with the new refrigerants.

---

Not compared to 410a, they do compared to R22. If anything the lower discharge pressure of R454b should allow the compressor to last longer not shorter. Again this is what CAN be done with the refrigerants not what companies will do with them.

In general, R32 and R454a are a superior base for residential HVAC based on their higher latent heat of evaporation. It is certainly arguable R22 overall was better, all things considered, but it is still less efficient than R410a.

quote:

---

The never refrigerants are not as energy efficient as the previous ones

You will use more kW/h for same cooling. But they are better “green” gases

---

Not to mention the added bonus of having a flammable gas escaping into your attic if your air handler/evaporator is up there and springs a leak.

All they have is deflection while they steal from us

The efficiencies of these refrigerants is probably a coin toss in the big picture. The problems come in with:

A: Changes in refrigerants that are incompatible with previous systems.

B: Thinner wall coils for efficiency and cost cutting lends to expensive and too frequent repairs/replacements.

C: Proprietary circuit boards to eek out the last seer rating # and expand on service call frequency and costs.

Stick with R22 refrigerant with thick copper coils and NO circuit boards. In the long run, fewer refrigerant leakage, no toxic circuit board residue, and much less units being dumped. Mandatory 15 year warranty. This will be more environmental friendly by far. Of course this will never happen.

quote:

---

It’s probably more the companies that makes the refrigerant. Chemours, Honeywell and one other, I think.

---

Bingo. Don’t forget Dupont. All of these refrigerants fall when they leak because they’re heavier than air. They don’t even float. The ozone we’re allegedly trying to protect is in the stratosphere, which is something like 7 to 28 miles above us. I’ve been in this industry for 30+ years and I’ve always known this refrigerant ‘problem’ was bullshite.