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Mexico Thought Experiment
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:07 pm
let's perform a thought experiment. Let's say Mexico devolves from its current state to more of a narco state, and the cartels have a coup, and take control of the state.
Would the US be justified in entering Mexico to restore order? What if the ousted president asked us to help? What if the people were on the side of the cartels? What would the international reaction be?
From my perspective, I think we would have every right to intervene, and stop Mexico from devolving into chaos. And I think we would be justified in doing this.
Obviously its not the same scenario but its illuminating to me to examine what I think about what is going on in ukraine.
what do you think would happen in that scenario? You can save the obama bashing for the 20 other threads, realistically, what should we be able to do? And should Russia have the same rights/obligations?
Would the US be justified in entering Mexico to restore order? What if the ousted president asked us to help? What if the people were on the side of the cartels? What would the international reaction be?
From my perspective, I think we would have every right to intervene, and stop Mexico from devolving into chaos. And I think we would be justified in doing this.
Obviously its not the same scenario but its illuminating to me to examine what I think about what is going on in ukraine.
what do you think would happen in that scenario? You can save the obama bashing for the 20 other threads, realistically, what should we be able to do? And should Russia have the same rights/obligations?
9
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:10 pm to Hawkeye95
I'll flip the script.
Imagine if Russia was investing billions into subverting Canadian politics so they could hurt our economy and gain military advantages against us.
Would we be pissed?
Imagine if Russia was investing billions into subverting Canadian politics so they could hurt our economy and gain military advantages against us.
Would we be pissed?
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:10 pm to Hawkeye95
Mexico is barely a step above chaos (or it was in 2012-13) so I don't think we step in tremendously without UN support. We may increase our own border security but that's it.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:10 pm to Hawkeye95
Will the supply of tequila and sexy Latina women be impacted?
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:12 pm to Hawkeye95
I've long advocated a MUCH easier, cheaper and more effective strategy that will solve the problem presented in your thought experiment.
Simply...
MINE THE BORDER!
Forget fences. Forget border patrols. Mine the whole border and publicize the fact that you've done it.
Simply...
MINE THE BORDER!
Forget fences. Forget border patrols. Mine the whole border and publicize the fact that you've done it.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:12 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
I'll flip the script.
Imagine if Russia was investing billions into subverting Canadian politics so they could hurt our economy and gain military advantages against us.
Would we be pissed?
I thought about doing this. and yes we would be pissed.
I know we wouldn't go into mexico as its a huge arse country, but we have a vested interest in a stable mexico.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:12 pm to Hawkeye95
See Guantanamo thread.
We have already made our position on such issues clear.
We have already made our position on such issues clear.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:15 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
From my perspective, I think we would have every right to intervene, and stop Mexico from devolving into chaos. And I think we would be justified in doing this.
Obviously its not the same scenario but its illuminating to me to examine what I think about what is going on in ukraine.
Moral equivalency strikes again!
If it's obviously not the same scenario, how is it illuminating in any way? The moral standing of the actors doesn't matter to you, that's how.
Euromaidan <> Mexican drug cartels
Shooting fireworks at armored police who are enforcing draconian laws against peaceful assembly <> decapitating your competitors, terrorizing whole regions, killing women and children, etc
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:20 pm to Hawkeye95
I've long said the best way to handle Mexico is create a stimulus package that built a 20' high fence that is 4' thick across the entire border of Mexico. This stimulates the economy by creating jobs, creates a demand for building materials during construction, and secures our border.
I'm for an amnesty program, but won't have the discussion with anyone until the border is 100% secure. Until that occurs, there is no amnesty in any shape, form, or fashion.
I'm for an amnesty program, but won't have the discussion with anyone until the border is 100% secure. Until that occurs, there is no amnesty in any shape, form, or fashion.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:23 pm to Sleeping Tiger
quote:
I'll flip the script.
Imagine if Russia was investing billions into subverting Canadian politics so they could hurt our economy and gain military advantages against us.
Would we be pissed?
Russia would be subverting Canadian liberal democracy, not Ukrainian/Russian illiberal democracy/kleptocracy.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 12:52 pm to uway
quote:
If it's obviously not the same scenario, how is it illuminating in any way?
its called thinking. You know, looking at things from different perspectives. Doing this enables you to poke holes in your own thought process, and makes you a better person IMHO.
question everything, even your own beliefs.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 2:25 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
its called thinking. You know, looking at things from different perspectives. Doing this enables you to poke holes in your own thought process, and makes you a better person IMHO.
Thinking should involve discernment.
Posted on 3/4/14 at 2:56 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
let's perform a thought experiment. Let's say Mexico devolves from its current state to more of a narco state, and the cartels have a coup, and take control of the state.
short of an official overthrow it's already pretty much anarchy down there as town citizens have had to form armed militias to combat the drug cartel.
quote:
Would the US be justified in entering Mexico to restore order?
Depends on the situation
quote:
What if the ousted president asked us to help?
depends on who ousted him just the cartels and a few lunatics associated with them or the people revo
quote:
What if the people were on the side of the cartels?
then no we shouldn't subjugate other people under leadership they don't want.
quote:
What would the international reaction be?
Well some would place the blame on our War on drugs which in my opinion is exactly where it belongs.
quote:
From my perspective, I think we would have every right to intervene, and stop Mexico from devolving into chaos. And I think we would be justified in doing this.
what gives us the right to step in and force the mexicans to live under the government of our choosing?
Posted on 3/4/14 at 4:29 pm to Hawkeye95
What they have needed to do for decades is pass antitrust laws so that Mexico ceases to be a collection of monopolies with no middle class. However, doing so would be impossible. They'd have to overcome the fat cats in power and overhaul almost every industry like AT&T in the 80's, so it won't happen. Instead, they teach their poorest, dumbest people how to sneak into the US.
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