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re: Liberal Folks, Should We Tax the Rich?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:39 pm to David_DJS
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:39 pm to David_DJS
The dumbest part of that chart is the Corporate Taxes part.
Quite obviously, corporate taxes are passed on. Oh, sure. I can hear the liberals now. "Not all of it blah blah blah".
Yeah sure. I'll pretend that's true for a minute.
That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of corporate taxes are paid by the corporation's customers.
They're the ultimate feel good taxes that do the exact opposite of what they claim.
Quite obviously, corporate taxes are passed on. Oh, sure. I can hear the liberals now. "Not all of it blah blah blah".
Yeah sure. I'll pretend that's true for a minute.
That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of corporate taxes are paid by the corporation's customers.
They're the ultimate feel good taxes that do the exact opposite of what they claim.
1
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:42 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:Perhaps
The whole premise of taxing everyone at the same rate just doesn't work due to have and have nots. The same number needs to come out of the bucket.
But it is also completely unsustainable to have a majority of the people with no skin in the game demanding more and more goodies from the government at the expense of the minority of the people who we've all decided "deserve" to get taxed.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:42 pm to fjlee90
quote:
Reality is we probably need to tighten up business expense rules, reduce tax deductions credits for corporations, and then cut then cut the rate hell probably in half and you'd still increase the effective rate. There is that much pork in the tax credit game for corporations.
Again, people forget that only around 5% of all corporations in the US are even subject to the corporate tax.
The other 95% are taxed according to the owner's pass-through rate.
Corporate income taxes are not a significant portion of the pie, relatively speaking. And not because corporations "don't pay their fair share," although they don't, but mainly because there aren't enough of them structured as C or B corps to tax for very much.
Which is why the advice quoted above would be terrible for America. Business owners in America already get shafted b/c we pay twice as much FICA tax as employees.
We need something to even that up, which are the deduction latitudes the poster you quoted wants to "tighten up."
Which again, are not nearly as advantageous for 95% of the business owners in America as people think they are.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:47 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:What is the corporate "fair share"?
Corporate income taxes are not a significant portion of the pie, relatively speaking. And not because corporations "don't pay their fair share," although they don't,
Corporations are made up of people. All of whom pay taxes. If we don't like how much we get in taxes from a corporation, we don't have to tax the corporation to solve that.
In fact. I can't imagine a better way for well off people who own corporations to AVOID paying taxes than to convince Americans that the best way to fleece those individuals is to tax ALL corporations so that they can pass it thru to the very same Americans who think they're fleecing rich people. It's much the same as ultra-wealthy people convincing Americans that the best way to target the ultra-wealthy is thru income taxes.
GULLIBLE
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:52 pm to PizzaPie
quote:
That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of corporate taxes are paid by the corporation's customers.
Another misconception.
The idea that businesses pass along taxes to customers in the form of higher prices is flawed for several reasons.
First, taxes are only paid on profits. They aren't business expenses. They aren't part of what it costs a business to earn profits.
Second, even if taxes were business expenses, expenses do not set prices. Prices are set by demand. It doesn't matter if the price of some material you need to produce your product goes up—it will only result in higher prices if the market is willing to bear the higher price. Otherwise you'll have to make a smaller profit or else decide it's not a viable business model.
Higher taxes might cause a business to raise prices, but it's certainly not a forgone conclusion.
It depends on the strategy of the business in relation to the market and the competition and the availability of substitute goods/services and the market share desired. In other words, taxes are just one factor among many and are not likely to influence prices by themselves.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:52 pm to Tigers0918
quote:
Most conservatives are against government programs to help others.
This is horse shite and proves you don't even understand what conservatives are arguing.
Social programs are out of control and are no longer used for intended purposes.
Now is a perfect example. Millions of jobs available. Begging people to work. Offering huge signing bonuses. But people won't work because of the increased unemployment benefits.
Ask yourself this. If welfare benefits were dependant on citizens contributing 40 hours a week of community service...would they still sign up or would they go get a job?
Why is Red Bull and energy drinks included in food stamp programs? Ribeyes? Name brand foods vs generic? Food stamps were intended to keep people healthy for a short amount of time. Now they are used to keep up with the Jones.
Why do you have a new Nissan Altima and iPhone 12 with unlimited data while receiving Gov assistance?
I see this shite daily. I have no issue helping people with my taxes. I have a huge problem paying taxes to bring their lifestyle above mine while giving them a reason not to get a job.
Get out and see the world man. It's not what you think it is.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 9:55 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:53 pm to PizzaPie
I'm pretty sure you only read (out of context and then knee-jerk reacted to) two words in my whole post.
Which is kind of typical here.
Which is kind of typical here.
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 9:55 pm
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:54 pm to wackatimesthree
Well, what is their "fair share"?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:55 pm to shel311
quote:They didn't pay any taxes, because they didn't make any profits. You think that should be "fixed"? How do you propose "fixing" that? Taxing revenue?
didn't Amazon go a couple or few years in a row just recently without paying any taxes? Fixing whatever rule that was that got them to pay $0 would seem like a pretty good start to fixing some of these issues.
quote:That's pretty damn clear.
I certainly don't know all the ins and outs
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:56 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:Well, this is just false. It's not an "idea". It's reality.
The idea that businesses pass along taxes to customers in the form of higher prices is flawed for several reasons.
quote:Yeah. I know how to read a balance sheet.
First, taxes are only paid on profits. They aren't business expenses. They aren't part of what it costs a business to earn profits.
quote:I'm sure you'll get to an actual point eventually
Second, even if taxes were business expenses, expenses do not set prices.
quote:I realize you guys all think this is some gotcha. It isn't.
It doesn't matter if the price of some material you need to produce your product goes up—it will only result in higher prices if the market is willing to bear the higher price. Otherwise you'll have to make a smaller profit or else decide it's not a viable business model.
quote:Oh, it's a foregone conclusion. The ONLY question is, how much of it will get passed on. Literally the ONLY question.
Higher taxes might cause a business to raise prices, but it's certainly not a forgone conclusion.
quote:ALL of those places pay corporate taxes too.
It depends on the strategy of the business in relation to the market and the competition and the availability of substitute goods/services and the market share desired. In other words, taxes are just one factor among many and are not likely to influence prices by themselves.
Basically, nothing in your post contradicts the reality that corporate taxes are largely passed on. Sorry.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:57 pm to PizzaPie
quote:
But it is also completely unsustainable to have a majority of the people with no skin in the game demanding more and more goodies from the government at the expense of the minority of the people who we've all decided "deserve" to get taxed.
It is also unsustainable for a few people to have all of the money. Ever heard of Feudalism?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:57 pm to oklahogjr
quote:He reinvested in growth rather than taking profits. A lot of shareholders were NOT happy about it. But look how it turned out.
Besos model is to take losses for as long as possible and grow revenue until eventually he just cant expand anymore.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:58 pm to 93and99
quote:
Well, what is their "fair share"?
The quotation marks are a clue.
All I was saying is that it's true that corporations (the 5% which are actually subject to corporate taxes) have lots of loopholes to avoid paying taxes, so the accusation that they don't pay "their fair share," is true in the context of that narrative. The quotation marks are the indicator that I do not consider the narrative valid. In other words, I agree with you on that point.
Had you read the whole post in context I would have thought that would have been obvious, but you just saw the two words "fair share" and wet your pants.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:58 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:Well. You'd be wrong.
I'm pretty sure you only read (out of context and then knee-jerk reacted to) two words in my whole post.
But, no one should ever be allowed to use those two words as if they have some actual meaning.
They do not. Thus, you have to define how you are using them.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:59 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:Shhhh
They didn't pay any taxes, because they didn't make any profits. You think that should be "fixed"? How do you propose "fixing" that? Taxing revenue?
You'd be AMAZED at how many liberals would support this idea.
I'd place that number as a large majority of them.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:00 pm to Tigers0918
quote:
The question should be, should you pay a higher % for income over a million than at 50k?
I say yes.
You think tax rates go down at higher incomes?Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:00 pm to shel311
quote:I wish more people who wrote that sentence would just stop there.
I certainly don't know all the ins and outs,
But nope. They still have strong opinions on stuff they know nothing about.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:01 pm to PizzaPie
quote:
Basically, nothing in your post contradicts the reality that corporate taxes are largely passed on.
Two questions:
1. Have you ever owned a business?
2. If so, what was your formula for determining your prices? Let's see what huge role taxes played in your experience.
If the answer to #1 is "no," well, there's one of us who doesn't know what the hell s/he is talking about all right. But it isn't me.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:03 pm to Zach
Why can't the federal government just protect our borders/entry points, maintain interstate highways, provide for veterans.....and let the private sector and capitalism take care of the rest?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:05 pm to oklahogjr
quote:There is no "both sides" to this. If we had 2006 level spending with today's taxes we'd be running north of a $1 Trillion surplus. Now tell me what does government do SO MUCH better today than it did in 2006? I can't think of a damn thing.
Little of column A little of column B. If we don't go st it from both sides we will never move either needle enough. No one is willing to give major ground but you might get both sides to give up some minor ground to make enough overall difference
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