re: Let's all come clean, why is Trump so despised and hated by some Americans?

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I already gave you compelling arguments that you didn't have adequate responses for. Instead, you post a condescending comment. Then say, essentially, Trump wasn't perfect, so good riddance to him.

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It's only your view that you made a compelling argument. "It was hard" doesn't fly for a lot of adults, especially on the Right. I'm not holding Trump to any standard Trump wouldn't hold someone else to. You get that, right?

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Then say, essentially, Trump wasn't perfect

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That's not at all what I'm suggesting. I'm arguing Trump wasn't very good at all on fixing the border, and he was outright horrible in dealing with Covid.

That said, I've said (if not in this thread, loads of others) that he was very good in foreign affairs and he piloted the economy very well in his first 3 years.

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so good riddance to him.

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You're making this up, too.

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He did as well or better than anyone else would have done under the circumstances.

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I don't agree. There are a lot of people that understood what was going on, and importantly - what was at stake - in 2020. Trump failed in a way he didn't have to.

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No President placed in his situation would have bucked the recommendations of every Health organization in the world at the time. It just isn't reasonable.

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Do you understand that the CDC/NIH are in the executive branch?

Let me ask you - let's pretend that the WHO was under the control of the Kremlin rather than Beijing, and it was jumping up and down about the swine flu like during Obama's presidency like it did Covid, do you think Obama would have pushed back on that, probably even told the WHO to frick right off?. Not because Obama was supersmart and a great leader, but he would have recognized politics and someone coming for his job.

I guarantee if Fauci was a conservative with deep roots, a history of writing fawning letters to failed Republican candidates for president, that Obama would have assigned him to an important project at the south pole if he started yammering BS about shutting shite down because of the swine flu.

There were a lot of actual scientists/MDs (as opposed to those driven by politics) that spoke/wrote in opposition to much of what was sold as "science" in 2020. There were millions of average Joes, too. Even on this message board there were many posters that understood, in real time, what was going on. It wasn't a mystery.

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It's only your view that you made a compelling argument. "It was hard" doesn't fly for a lot of adults, especially on the Right. I'm not holding Trump to any standard Trump wouldn't hold someone else to. You get that, right?

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So who currently running would have performed all the tasks you’re saying Trump alone couldn’t get done during his first term and which of these current candidates will absolutely out perform Trump on domestic and foreign policy if they’re elected in 2024?

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First, the measure isn't who could have done it all. It's who could have done more or better than Trump.

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Ok, so who? Are you saying DeSantis?

A thin skinned whiney immature adolescent character

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Your first statement isn't reasonable. I have frequently defended Trump's performance, even during covid, taking into account the factors he faced that no other president has faced. But your claim is basically saying that Trump was perfect; nobody could possibly do better than he did under the circumstances. 

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I get your point regarding making absolute statements. But who could have reasonably been expected to do a better job under the circumstances? The actions he took were about as measured, and logical, as any prudent, conscientious person could have made at the time. Walking a tightrope between protecting the public, and preserving our economy.

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The actions he took were about as measured, and logical, as any prudent, conscientious person could have made at the time.

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You get my point about absolute statements but then you made another one. He was fantastic in some areas, flawed in others. Some of his personnel picks were garbage, and that's not with the benefit of hindsight. They were garbage when he made them. I think he did OK with covid, but just OK. I voted for him twice but I'm not going to claim he didn't and doesn't have room for improvement.

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The actions he took were about as measured, and logical, as any prudent, conscientious person could have made at the time.


You get my point about absolute statements but then you made another one. He was fantastic in some areas, flawed in others. Some of his personnel picks were garbage, and that's not with the benefit of hindsight. They were garbage when he made them. I think he did OK with covid, but just OK. I voted for him twice but I'm not going to claim he didn't and doesn't have room for improvement.

My quote referred to only his handling of Covid. His personnel picks left a lot to be desired, that's definitely true. I think a lot of that was because he depended on the GOP to help him make most of his personnel picks. He didn't have a lifetime of political contacts to draw from. The GOPe resented him, and worked counter to his interests many times (Paul Ryan, for example). He was somewhat naive, and felt that even former adversaries could be trusted if you brought them on board. I get the impression DC was more treacherous than he thought.

ETA: Note I used the qualifier "about". Let's just say I think his actions on Covid were reasonable based on the circumstances he faced.

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I have already told you that with the proof. They were sent back to their country of origin

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Why would anybody take your word for anything?

According to ICE's FY19 report, the number of non-detained national docket cases increased by nearly 700,000.

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Now who is lying.

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You are.

You don't get to decide which bill I was referring to, but more than that - this post from you proves you were lying. FFS, can you not even read what you type? You posted that nobody voted against it, and then to argue you weren't lying, you post the names of some of the Republicans who voted against it.

And you wonder why I say you're retarded.

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assie was grandstanding. He wants a voice vote... That was it. THE MAN VOTED FOR IT!!!

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No he didn't.

Do you think everybody is as shitty at google as you? We can literally go to the record, jjdoc. Thomas Massie didn't vote for the $2T relief bill that he spoke out against, and Trump went full-establishment and tried to roll him under the bus over.

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GRANDSTANDING!!

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FFS - you even posted a quote proving my point.

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No, not "It was hard". It was impossible. You get that, right?

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No, I don't. And do you know who else didn't think it was impossible? Trump. Unless you're suggesting he cynically made a campaign promise he fully knew was impossible.

But whatever Trump believed, the notion that it is impossible to deal with the border is excuse making. Hard things can be accomplished.

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And I'm likely as mature and demanding of everyone (including myself) as you are.

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It doesn't appear that way.

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There were a FEW (very few) doctors that spoke out against the dictated Covid policies, and they were ostracized, painted as crackpots, and sometimes had their jobs threatened.

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And who's "science" was used to do this? Trump's CDC. You never connect those dots for some reason.

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or were too afraid of repercussions to speak out.

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Think about what this says about the leadership in this country at this time.

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The numbers had fallen sharply at the end of his term.

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They were on the upswing compared to Obama years before Covid.

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To try to blame Trump for the 6 million illegals that have entered under Biden since he systematically revised all of Trump's policies is an odd position to take, isn't it?

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I don't blame Trump for the 6 million under Biden. I blame Trump for not fixing the border, which has allowed the dementia-riddled pedophile to open the border.

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My initial inclination is that he wouldn't have questioned it, he wasn't a deep thinker at all.

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We're not talking about deep thinking. We're talking about being a power-hungry politician that would not allow his own administration frick up his economy.

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the risk of potentially sacrificing countless lives

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This is the foundation of our disagreement re: Covid response. You really believed the Left/media, gov't health that the country was in real peril. I never did. Seriously, in the last 25 years, and especially once Trump took office, when have those frickers ever been honest about anything? Covid was just the new "current thing" after a long line of "current things" used to accrue power/wealth to the "right people" and erode our freedoms.

The other thing - let's say Covid was worse than it was. Not a species-extinction sort of thing, but let's say it was 5x more legit lethal than it was ... what could be done about it besides throwing the kitchen sink at treatment, and trying to isolate the really old and already very unwell Americans? The virus started with a single person halfway around the world and inside of a few months was at every corner of the globe, and running rampant. At some point you've got to accept that sometimes bad things happen, and the government (or anybody else) cannot save you from risks/challenges in life. But again, this is hypothetical, we knew early on Covid wasn't all that it was being trumped up to be.