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Started By
Message
re: Legal Recourse for Employer Vaccine Requirement
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:34 am to MMauler
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:34 am to MMauler
quote:
Forcing you to take an experimental drug that isn't approved in order to come into the workplace doesn't involve "workplace safety"?
To my knowledge this is not addressed by OHSA presently thus there is nothing preventing the requirement of the vaccine by the employer and having the OHSA protections to fall back on at this moment.
1
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:35 am to GeauxFightingTigers1
quote:
problems come up, they are opening up liability.
Negative. The employers do not and will not have liability from the vaccine.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:36 am to Indefatigable
quote:
quote:
I'm pretty sure an employer forcing you to inject an unknown chemical with unknown side effects is most definitely an OSHA issue.
It isn’t.
This is where you look like a complete f*cking MORON.
Please show us one case where an employer was allowed to force employers to take an unapproved, experimental drug where the side effects are not known but there is anecdotal evidence showing the side effects could be severe and include death.
You can't.
Likewise, without looking, I can pretty much say that I can't find a case with these exact facts either. There might be something close, but not exactly.
Once again, WHY?
Because no employer was ever complete f*cking INSANE enough to ever think that he could require employees to engage in such potentially dangerous activity.
And, I can guarantee you that if anyone dies or has sever side effects (e.g., blod clots that damage their long-term health), juries will pretty much put those employers out of f*cking business -- AND THAT INCLUDES WALMART. From what I've read, Congress did not grant these employers immunity like they did for themselves and the drug manufacturers.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:39 am to Robin Masters
Local hospital system has granted medical exemptions. Find a friendly doctor with a common sense argument based on your actual health.
If that’s not available to you, ask for a religious exemption.
If that’s not available to you, ask for a religious exemption.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:41 am to MMauler
quote:
Please show us one case where an employer was allowed to force employers to take an unapproved, experimental drug where the side effects are not known but there is anecdotal evidence showing the side effects could be severe and include death.
You can't.
Likewise, without looking, I can pretty much say that I can't find a case with these exact facts either. There might be something close, but not exactly.
Once again, WHY?
Because no employer was ever complete f*cking INSANE enough to ever think that he could require employees to engage in such potentially dangerous activity.
And, I can guarantee you that if anyone dies or has sever side effects (e.g., blod clots that damage their long-term health), juries will pretty much put those employers out of f*cking business -- AND THAT INCLUDES WALMART. From what I've read, Congress did not grant these employers immunity like they did for themselves and the drug manufacturers.
We are not talking about employers physically vaccinating you against your will.
An employer can require you to be vaccinated as a condition of your employment. That is not “forcing” you to get the shot.
quote:
juries will pretty much put those employers out of f*cking business -- AND THAT INCLUDES WALMART. From what I've read, Congress did not grant these employers immunity like they did for themselves and the drug manufacturers.
You are wrong. The FDA has given employers all the cover they need.
This post was edited on 8/4/21 at 8:42 am
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:43 am to MMauler
quote:
Please show us one case where an employer was allowed to force employers to take an unapproved, experimental drug where the side effects are not known but there is anecdotal evidence showing the side effects could be severe and include death.
There is some nuance here you seem to be missing…the employer can, as long as they are not violating Federal protections nor a contract, require you to get the vaccination…to the extent you are employed with the company…they can’t strap you down and inject you BUT they can require the shot as terms of continued employment. You can choose to quit and appeal to the unemployment board or find another job.
It’s coercion yes but not illegal.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:43 am to MMauler
OSHA is the government. You can’t use the government to fight the government. Here’s why:
frick the government.
quote:
On April 20, 2021, OSHA issued guidance requiring employers to record adverse reactions to COVID-19 vaccines when an employee’s ability to work was affected. Specifically, OSHA’s Guidance stated “[i]f you require your employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment (i.e., for work-related reasons), then any adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine is work-related. The adverse reaction is recordable if it is a new case under 29 CFR 1904.6 and meets one or more of the general recording criteria in 29 CFR 1904.7.”
However, on May 22, 2021, OSHA abruptly changed course and suspended the recording requirement until May 2022. OSHA’s motivation for suspending the enforcement requirement to record adverse injuries or death from COVID-19 shots appears to be an attempt by the Biden Administration to promote vaccinations.
frick the government.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:45 am to Indefatigable
https://www.bmdllc.com/resources/blog/employer-liability-for-covid-19-vaccine-side-effects/
Employer Liability for COVID-19 Vaccine Side Effects
https://www.employerslawyersblog.com/2021/03/take-covid-19-vaccine-or-else-legal-pitfalls-for-employers.html
You're painting with a very broad brush, I would suggest the person not listen to you and seek legal advice from someone with actual legal knowledge.
Also, each of the 50 States has different employment laws.
Employer Liability for COVID-19 Vaccine Side Effects
quote:
June 9, 2021 As employers encourage or require employees to obtain a COVID-19 vaccine, they should be aware of OSHA recording obligations and potential workers’ compensation liability. Though OSHA has yet to revise its COVID-19 guidance in response to the latest CDC recommendations, OSHA has revised its position regarding the recording of injury or illness resulting from the vaccine. Until now, OSHA required an employer to record an adverse reaction when the vaccine was required for employees and the injury or illness otherwise met the recording criteria (work-related, a new case, and meets one or more of the general recording criteria). OSHA has reversed course and announced that it will not require recording adverse reactions until at least May 2022, irrespective of whether the employer requires the vaccine as a condition of employment. In its revised COVID-19 FAQs, OSHA states: DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward. This is welcome news and will help facilitate employers’ proactive efforts to protect employees and maintain a safe workplace. Ohio workers’ compensation law, however, is not so clear. In 1934, the Ohio Supreme Court held in Spicer Mfg. Co. v. Tucker that an employee’s death resulting from a smallpox vaccination was covered under the Workers’ Compensation Act. The decision was based primarily upon the fact that the employer required the employee to obtain the vaccine as a condition of continued employment. Scant precedent since the Spicer decision includes the 2016 Eighth District Court of Appeals decision in Rolsen v. Walgreen Co. In Rolsen, an employee filed a workers’ compensation claim after experiencing adverse symptoms from a pneumonia vaccine. The court of appeals held that the illness was not sustained in the course of employment since the vaccine was encouraged but not required by the employer. The court of appeals arrived at this conclusion despite the fact that the employee received the vaccine on the employer’s premises during the employee’s working hours. Ohio Industrial Commission decisions vary and do not provide a great deal of guidance to employers. However, careful implementation of a vaccine policy can substantially mitigate an employer’s workers’ compensation liability for adverse reactions. For assistance in developing such a policy and for the latest OSHA updates, please contact BMD Labor + Employment Member Stephen Matasich at sematasich@bmdllc.com.
https://www.employerslawyersblog.com/2021/03/take-covid-19-vaccine-or-else-legal-pitfalls-for-employers.html
You're painting with a very broad brush, I would suggest the person not listen to you and seek legal advice from someone with actual legal knowledge.
Also, each of the 50 States has different employment laws.
This post was edited on 8/4/21 at 8:48 am
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:46 am to Indefatigable
quote:
Indefatigable
You are spot on bro! The ones coming at you are missing the nuance of what we are posting and splitting hairs incorrectly.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:47 am to Indefatigable
quote:
An employer can require you to be vaccinated as a condition of your employment. That is not “forcing” you to get the shot.
Given specific language and spirit of human trafficking and harassment laws I’d imagine a civil rights attorney would have a field day with your bull shite argument. There are numerous instances in which people in positions of power who control your livelihood cannot coerce behavior.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:48 am to Crimson1st
quote:
To my knowledge this is not addressed by OHSA presently
No sh!t.
Why?
Once again, no employer has been f*cking insane enough to try to force employees to take unapproved experimental drugs that have been proven to cause severe side effects (AND DEATH) in certain people.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:50 am to Robin Masters
quote:
Given specific language and spirit of human trafficking and harassment laws I’d imagine a civil rights attorney would have a field day with your bull shite argument. There are numerous instances in which people in positions of power who control your livelihood cannot coerce behavior.
I’m not saying you are wrong but much of this is up for speculation until it is specifically addressed by Federal law to govern over at will work states. Until then it can be litigated but the results are yet to be seen on where the law sides due to lack of case law.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:51 am to Indefatigable
quote:
The FDA has given employers all the cover they need.
Give us the cite.
Show us where employers have been granted full and unlimited immunity to force CURRENT employees to take an experimental, unapproved, "EMERGENCY USE ONLY," drug.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:51 am to RoosterCogburn585
Quit and find something else
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:51 am to Crimson1st
quote:
specifically addressed by Federal law to govern over at will work states.
Gee. I wonder how that will turn out.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:51 am to RoosterCogburn585
I don't know if this will help but this the conversation I plan to have with my employer if they go down the vaccine mandate road.
1. I spoke with my doctor.
2. My doctor recommended the vaccine like he does with all his patients.
3. I told him my concerns with the vaccine.
a. "Emergency Use Authorization" by the FDA.
b. Known side effects of the vaccine screwing up your blood chemistry causing clots and various organ inflammation.
4. I'm on ZERO medication and don't want to have to start on blood thinners to counteract vaccine side effects.
5. I have ZERO comorbidities.
6. I had COVID last summer.
7. I carry the antibodies.
8. I will reconsider getting the vaccine as vaccine implementation matures, kinks are worked out and new and better vaccines with full approval come to market (e.g. Novavax).
9. My doctors response was, your risks are very low. Probably lower than vaccine side effects and I'm okay with you waiting to get the vaccine.
10. And because I'm personal friends with my doctor I feel comfortable challenging him. I asked, "do you have the vaccine". His response, "no".
1. I spoke with my doctor.
2. My doctor recommended the vaccine like he does with all his patients.
3. I told him my concerns with the vaccine.
a. "Emergency Use Authorization" by the FDA.
b. Known side effects of the vaccine screwing up your blood chemistry causing clots and various organ inflammation.
4. I'm on ZERO medication and don't want to have to start on blood thinners to counteract vaccine side effects.
5. I have ZERO comorbidities.
6. I had COVID last summer.
7. I carry the antibodies.
8. I will reconsider getting the vaccine as vaccine implementation matures, kinks are worked out and new and better vaccines with full approval come to market (e.g. Novavax).
9. My doctors response was, your risks are very low. Probably lower than vaccine side effects and I'm okay with you waiting to get the vaccine.
10. And because I'm personal friends with my doctor I feel comfortable challenging him. I asked, "do you have the vaccine". His response, "no".
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:52 am to the808bass
quote:
I wonder how that will turn out.
Spoiler alert: it will not end in liability for the employers.
Here’s the time to remind everyone that federal judges are political appointees.
This post was edited on 8/4/21 at 8:53 am
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:53 am to Crimson1st
quote:
I’m not saying you are wrong but much of this is up for speculation until it is specifically addressed by Federal law to govern over at will work states. Until then it can be litigated but the results are yet to be seen on where the law sides due to lack of case law.
Yeah, there is a long way to go in all this, between this and eviction stuff... decades.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:53 am to Crimson1st
quote:
Until then it can be litigated but the results are yet to be seen on where the law sides due to lack of case law.
The law is pretty clear that a boss insisting you give him a blow job as a condition of employment IS coercion and definitely does not constitute a voluntary sexual relationship.
Posted on 8/4/21 at 8:54 am to GeauxFightingTigers1
quote:
Yeah, there is a long way to go in all this, between this and eviction stuff... decades.
Nah. Eviction may go on forever, but the practically certain outcomes of the vaccine mandate and liability issues will be largely resolved in the coming weeks as people seek injunctions and the like.
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