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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.

Posted on 1/5/26 at 1:10 pm to
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42608 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

Then you factor in an American population that increasingly feels left behind for one reason or another. That the American dream is dead. "Why are we spending billions per year on other countries?" Isn't an unreasonable question.


Billions a year for world security isn’t a lot when you realize that we are spending trillions a year on social programs.

I’d rather see several billion go to Israel than to line the pockets of Dems in Minn., NYC, Phillis or LA.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

Billions a year for world security isn’t a lot when you realize that we are spending trillions a year on social programs


Sure but we are spending billions on world security and Russia has still invaded and seized a large chunk of a sovereign country, and China will likely be doing the same with Taiwan at some point in the near future.

quote:

I’d rather see several billion go to Israel than to line the pockets of Dems in Minn., NYC, Phillis or LA


Well yeah but the latter shouldn't be an option. The question should be "Israel or improve _____ in the US". I know thats not the reality currently but that is what we should be striving for and the standard we should hold our elected officials to.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15681 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

Billions a year for world security isn’t a lot when you realize that we are spending trillions a year on social programs.


Meh, it's billions a year where our technology gets tweaked and we get upgraded versions of what was already the best technology in the world
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3946 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

The fact that Maduro got drug out of his bed in pajamas and Kim is still the Supreme Leader of NK says otherwise



That makes North Korea a First World country?
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3946 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

I just want to see a balance.


Me, too.

I'm old enough to remember when Yeltsin kind of took Russia off of the "Global Threat" list, and China was so close to economic collapse they embraced Capitalism and didn't even know if they wanted to bother with this "Communist society" thing...

Then Putin and Xi happened...

We can't fix Venezuela... Chávez was not the beginning of their problems, he arguably bought them some time from social revolt, but you can't have a country with most of the population near starving and not have either violence or a brutal government that crushes the population. The new appointed leader did an about face and wants to talk to the U.S. She's smart... if the the U.S. controls Venezuela then the shitshow is all our fault, not hers... and there's no preventing/quickly fixing the shitshow... itr will take billions and decades.
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3946 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

I’d rather see several billion go to Israel than to line the pockets of Dems in Minn., NYC, Phillis or LA.



Dumb
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42608 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

Sure but we are spending billions on world security and Russia has still invaded and seized a large chunk of a sovereign country, and China will likely be doing the same with Taiwan at some point in the near future.

Russia’s actions didn’t go unpunished. The support we provided made em pay through tge nose, and don’t think China isn’t paying attention.[

quote]Well yeah but the latter shouldn't be an option. The question should be "Israel or improve _____ in the US". I know thats not the reality currently but that is what we should be striving for and the standard we should hold our elected officials to.[/quote]

Reality is way too much of our money goes to the wrong things. All the scandals are the tip of the iceberg. Like I ssid it’s not like the money spent on Ukraine would have gone to a legitimate problem here.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:01 pm to
I see what you were saying now, and no
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

Like I ssid it’s not like the money spent on Ukraine would have gone to a legitimate problem here.


It could have. For one you're fine with the resources spent on Ukraine so that's not a good metric, and secondly we should expect better results or we won't ever get better results.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15681 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:12 pm to
quote:

We can't fix Venezuela... Chávez was not the beginning of their problems, he arguably bought them some time from social revolt, but you can't have a country with most of the population near starving and not have either violence or a brutal government that crushes the population. The new appointed leader did an about face and wants to talk to the U.S. She's smart... if the the U.S. controls Venezuela then the shitshow is all our fault, not hers... and there's no preventing/quickly fixing the shitshow... itr will take billions and decades.


We can help Venezuelans fix Venezuela. Millions of the 8 million who fled it actually want to return. These are not gang members or low educated people. Many of them are engineers and administrators along with other professionals. Yes it will take time.

Venezuela's wealth is not only its oil but its aluminum, gold, silver and other resources it has in spades. A lot of repair will be needed for long idles facilities but the bones ae there to build on.

For the clueless who think that Venezuelan crude is dirty, think again. It takes less energy in the crude unit to process and 10% higher throughput than intermediate crude, easily 30% higher throughput than very light tight shale crude. Additionally, the residual is good for making asphalt and desirable petroleum coke. Someone might want to buy recently shuttered Houston Refining which even has a petcoke fueled cogen unit. It's the perfect refinery for very heavy crude oil.

The new leader is just another crony who is weak and the power is already shared among several. Meh on her ability.

Venezuela had slums but it was a quite wealthy nation with a high level of education.

Here is a good description of what happened. Chavez totally screwed the nation.




This post was edited on 1/5/26 at 3:24 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42608 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

It could have. For one you're fine with the resources spent on Ukraine so that's not a good metric, and secondly we should expect better results or we won't ever get better results.


You are putting words in my mouth again.
I wasn’t find with the how Biden provided resources and the results he got.

Yes, we should demand better, and not just from out foreign “investments”, but also from the money spent here at home.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15681 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

I wasn’t find with the how Biden provided resources and the results he got.


Both Biden as well as Obama invested in major campaign contributors which was wasted money. All of their "green" policies didn't work at all. Trillions wasted and why I don't trust any candidate whose primary financial backing is Silicon Valley
This post was edited on 1/5/26 at 3:27 pm
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

I wasn’t find with the how Biden provided resources and the results he got.


You are fine with the prospect of spending on Ukraine in general though. We weren't talking about specific allocations, just the general idea.
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3946 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

Venezuela had slums but it was a quite wealthy nation with a high level of education.



Did the majority of the population live in the slums or were they wealthy with a high level of education?
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3946 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

Trillions wasted and why I don't trust any candidate whose primary financial backing is Silicon Valley


So no JD Vance for you?
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3946 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

he money spent here at home.


Social spending in the US is really just subsidies for various markets.

"Food stamps!!!" In the farm bill, a subsidy for the food industry (and how many times does someone remove Coke and Pepsi and Little Debbie from the list, only for them to be quietly added back in a year because their lobbyists will throw money to a challenger to anyone who doesn't do it... every 5 years, or less people act like they've won some battle, and forget about it and cheer it on again a few years later.. hilarious)

"Section 8"/housing support: a subsidy for rentiers/real estate owners...

consider welfare and unemployment a subsidy for utility companies.

and all of it serves to prevent angry revolutionary movements among the poor and unemployed... we're one of the few countries that has not had that happen.
This post was edited on 1/5/26 at 4:05 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42608 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 4:41 pm to
quote:

You are fine with the prospect of spending on Ukraine in general though. We weren't talking about specific allocations, just the general idea.


Yes, and you posted that I was satisfied when I’m not.

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15681 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 5:43 pm to
quote:

So no JD Vance for you?


I see him as a good side man as VP but not ready for prime time
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28562 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 6:36 pm to
quote:

You are fine with the prospect of spending on Ukraine in general though

The security of Ukraine can be directly related to the security of Europe as a whole. A belligerent and aggressive Russia threatens the security of Europe, which, as a bloc, is the USA’s largest trade partner. The interests of Western Europe are very closely aligned with the interests of the USA.

Anyone who suggests that US interests are better served by cozying up to Slavic Russia is a misguided fool. Russia has never aligned with US interests.

The situation with Ukraine is more than just spending money on Ukraine. It is about keeping Russia from sending its army into Europe, containing Russian belligerence. That is a US interest.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8364 posts
Posted on 1/5/26 at 7:45 pm to
quote:

Anyone who suggests that US interests are better served by cozying up to Slavic Russia is a misguided fool. Russia has never aligned with US interests.


'neither' is also an option

quote:

The situation with Ukraine is more than just spending money on Ukraine. It is about keeping Russia from sending its army into Europe, containing Russian belligerence. That is a US interest


It's also in the US' interest that Darth Vader not invade Europe but I don't want my tax dollars going to that. Though Darth Vader is probably more likely at this point.

I have softened my stance some of late. Some aid was fine. But it's been too much and there shouldn't be anymore (from us anyway, Europe should be flooding Ukraine with it).
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