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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 11:40 am to doubleb
Posted on 12/2/25 at 11:40 am to doubleb
quote:
People that plead for Ukraine to throw in the towel don’t want Ukraine in NATO. They don’t want the US involved. They say it’s a European problem. But we are allied with most of Europe.
Them, you, and I have no actual power, so it doesn't really matter what any of us want
I am generally aligned with that bloc on a lot of issues re:Ukraine. I think NATO needs fewer takers, not another one that is also on the border of the country we founded NATO to stop. But if there is a solution that puts the issue to bed and it involves Ukraine in NATO, I might support it if the rest of the solution makes sense because clearly the Ukraine issue is an expressway to World War 3 at some point if it gets left open.
Russia likely will never agree to that, but it could involve assurances that basically make Ukraine a NATO member, just not in name. That way Russia can save face a bit even if its functionally the same outcome.
This post was edited on 12/2/25 at 11:46 am
1
Posted on 12/2/25 at 12:30 pm to VolSquatch
The solution is to take the gloves off and for the West to completely isolate Russia, supplement Ukraine with arms and supplies, and give them what they need to make Russia quit.
The West has not done that.
The West has not done that.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 12:41 pm to doubleb
quote:
The solution is to take the gloves off
And that entails what, specifically?
Posted on 12/2/25 at 12:59 pm to VolSquatch
And I cut and pasted exactly what I posted.
quote]The solution is to take the gloves off and for the West to completely isolate Russia, supplement Ukraine with arms and supplies, and give them what they need to make Russia quit.[/quote]
The West had yet to do this.
quote]The solution is to take the gloves off and for the West to completely isolate Russia, supplement Ukraine with arms and supplies, and give them what they need to make Russia quit.[/quote]
The West had yet to do this.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 1:06 pm to doubleb
quote:
completely isolate Russia
They are trying to do this, have somewhat already, so far hasn't worked.
quote:
supplement Ukraine with arms and supplies
The west has been INCREDIBLY generous with arms and supplies. Pretty sure we are paying their government salaries too, are we not?
quote:
give them what they need to make Russia quit.
What are we not giving them that will do it? You want us to give them some stealth bombers that we train?
I saw what you posted, I assumed there would be more to it than stuff we are pretty much already doing. I guess not.
This post was edited on 12/2/25 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 12/2/25 at 1:11 pm to VolSquatch
Then you haven't been paying attention for well over a decade. The collapse is especially in the Slavic ethnic group.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 1:14 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Then you haven't been paying attention for well over a decade. The collapse is especially in the Slavic ethnic group.
From the creator of "fake quotes from someone who doesn't exist" comes the much anticipated sequel "A birth rate of 1.4 is actually way more problematic than a birth rate of 0.9, actually".
Posted on 12/2/25 at 1:35 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
They are trying to do this, have somewhat already, so far hasn't worked.
They have not isolated Russia. The West still trades with them. The need to stop.
quote:
The west has been INCREDIBLY generous with arms and supplies. Pretty sure we are paying their government salaries too, are we not?
Yes they have, but they need to do a better job of coordinating the aid and getting it to the front lines. But as a whole they have been very generous.
quote:
What are we not giving them that will do it?
Tomahawks for one thing. We brought it up and we should follow through with it. In general we need to give Ukraine the ability to meet force with force. Every time a missile lands in Kiev or Odessa, a missile should land in a military target in West/Soutwest Russia of Crimea.
Air defenses. Some of those old moth balled planes and tanks. Pay for it with Russia cash.
Make Russia understand the West is in it for the long haul.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 1:47 pm to doubleb
Vladimir Putin accuses Europeans of sabotaging Ukraine peace push
Russian president hosts Witkoff and Kushner for negotiations as military claims battlefield advances in Ukraine
Vladimir Putin accused European countries on Tuesday of undermining Washington’s efforts to end the war in Ukraine, as US envoy Steve Witkoff held talks with the Russian president in Moscow.
Putin said on Tuesday: “They [the Europeans] have no peace agenda. They are on the side of war. And even when they try to make supposed adjustments to [Donald] Trump’s proposal, it is clear that these changes aim at one purpose: to block the entire peace process.”
Speaking at the “Russia Calling!” investment forum in Moscow, he added: “They put forward demands they know are entirely unacceptable for Russia, and then aim to pin the collapse of the peace process on us.”
In a belligerent speech, Putin threatened to “cut Ukraine off from the sea entirely” in retaliation for attacks on Russia-linked tankers.
He added that “we have no intention of fighting Europe — I’ve said this a hundred times. But if Europe decides to start a war, we are ready right now.”
Financial Times
This post was edited on 12/2/25 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 12/2/25 at 2:03 pm to cypher
ISW has been reporting this. It’s never Russia’s fault.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 2:47 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
From the creator of "fake quotes from someone who doesn't exist" comes the much anticipated sequel "A birth rate of 1.4 is actually way more problematic than a birth rate of 0.9, actually".
You are the king of fabrication.
Russia had very low birthrates in the 1990's with a lot of migration outwards to the West. One issue is so many men with vodka peckers and women using abortion as a form of birth control so by the age of 30 they can no longer bear children. Russia demographics issue decades old.
This is from several years after Putin declared a national holiday to go home and breed.
LINK
Posted on 12/2/25 at 2:52 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
quote:
Russia is in as bad of demographic crisis if not worse.
Not based on anything measurable that I've seen
Russia has a complex ethnic situation. Ukraine only has a Russian problem.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 3:06 pm to CitizenK
quote:
You are the king of fabrication.
You could just prove some of your claims, but you won't. Because you can't.
quote:
Russia had very low birthrates in the 1990's
quote:
Russia demographics issue decades old.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 3:08 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
Ukraine only has a Russian problem.
Ukraine had a mass exodus of their population and had birth rate issues even before then. If Russia went home tomorrow Ukraine would still have pretty significant population issues. The fact that we know they aren't going home tomorrow makes it pretty bleak.
I would like Ukraine as it exists today to still be a thing. I think people make a country. Ukrainians are incredibly resilient. If they are replaced by millions of migrants, which seems likely in the future, it won't really be Ukraine anymore.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 3:09 pm to doubleb
quote:
ISW has been reporting this. It’s never Russia’s fault.
A perpetually dishonest country led by a murderous, perpetually dishonest leader isn't going to take blame for anything, ever.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 3:13 pm to doubleb
quote:
Tomahawks for one thing. We brought it up and we should follow through with it. In general we need to give Ukraine the ability to meet force with force. Every time a missile lands in Kiev or Odessa, a missile should land in a military target in West/Soutwest Russia of Crimea.
They could be doing that for a while and chose to hit other targets that are more economically damaging and more important from a PR sense. And maybe that works... Russia's economy could completely collapse and maybe the level of support they have gotten has been at least partially aided by those PR wins. But if they thought it would make that much of a difference, the door has been open for a while.
Posted on 12/2/25 at 3:31 pm to VolSquatch
Here’s what I posted:
quote]Tomahawks for one thing. We brought it up and we should follow through with it. In general we need to give Ukraine the ability to meet force with force. Every time a missile lands in Kiev or Odessa, a missile should land in a military target in West/Soutwest Russia of Crimea.[/quote]
I
quote:
if they thought it would make that much of a difference, the door has been open for a while.
Does Ukraine have enough missiles to match Russia? I don’t think so.
This post was edited on 12/2/25 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 12/2/25 at 3:47 pm to doubleb
And we don't have enough Tomahawks to do what you're suggesting
Posted on 12/2/25 at 4:24 pm to doubleb
quote:
The historical event: The quote refers to the fall of Granada in 1492, the last Muslim kingdom in Spain.
The context: As Boabdil surrendered the city, he wept at the sight of his former kingdom.
The reprimand: His mother, Aixa, famously told him, "Do not cry like a woman for what you could not defend like a man".
Posted on 12/2/25 at 4:41 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
And we don't have enough Tomahawks to do what you're suggesting
I didn’t say give them a tomahawk for every missile Russia fires off. Give them, sell them any kind of missile to do the job.
I mentioned Tomahawks because Trump did. He made a big mistake by bringing it up and backing down.
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