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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 9/29/25 at 2:07 pm to keks tadpole
quote:
I’m OK with what they did, but what happens if the EMTs administered the anti-venom and the snake handler died shortly after?
It wasn’t brain surgery. Administering anti venom isn’t radically different than their normal tasks. It’s a bullshite certification that no other state has.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 2:36 pm to Goombaw
What happened to “if it saves one life”?
Seems to me that our lives are important only in that they offer a means for others to exercise control.
Seems to me that our lives are important only in that they offer a means for others to exercise control.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 2:51 pm to Goombaw
quote:
Jeff Thurman, a member of the board’s medical oversight committee
Can eat my arse!
Posted on 9/29/25 at 2:57 pm to Goombaw
quote:
From my perspective, the focus shouldn’t necessarily be on the outcome
Sounds like that is a bit skewed away from a few lines of the Hippocratic Oath.
quote:
its on why the scope of practice exists, why it protects the public,
Letting people die when when an anti venom exists and is available protects the public. Also, we are from the government and we are here to help.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 3:22 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
You don't need to ID the snake, the antivenom for a native North American venomous snake is all the same. Doctors don't need or want the snake or a picture of it.
not entirely true
all pit-vipers (rattle snakes, cottonmouth/water moccasin, copperhead), yes
but a coral snake is different and not the same antivenom
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:14 pm to shinerfan
quote:
Why not just get some zoo employee do it or if possible let the guy do it himself? (Fairly sure that anti-venom isn't intravenous.)
Antivenom is typically given IV because of faster absorption rate.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:21 pm to riverdiver
quote:
Antivenom is typically given IV because of faster absorption rate.
Everyday is a schoolday.
My dad used to say that all the time. Pretty sure he wasn't aware that he was quoting Lenin.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:25 pm to Auburn1968
A little research into Dr. Jeff Thurman reveals that he's the operational medical director with an organization called Red STAR Wilderness EMS, a company formerly known as "the volunteer Wilderness EMS unit of Powell County Ambulance Service in Kentucky's Red River Gorge." Now they are a nonprofit organization that offers wilderness medical training.
So, some pieces are falling into place. Just theorizing here, but it looks like this guy is likely making a killing off of the "wilderness" medical training classes and the idea that a regular EMS unit could do it on their own is viewed as a threat to his enterprise. Their public class costs $1000 per person, 20 person limit and it fills up fast. No info on what they charge for the EMS training, but it's likely that a lot of grant money flows their way. Bottom line: It's in this guy's best interest that more EMS units take his course, by law or regulation, if necessary.
So, some pieces are falling into place. Just theorizing here, but it looks like this guy is likely making a killing off of the "wilderness" medical training classes and the idea that a regular EMS unit could do it on their own is viewed as a threat to his enterprise. Their public class costs $1000 per person, 20 person limit and it fills up fast. No info on what they charge for the EMS training, but it's likely that a lot of grant money flows their way. Bottom line: It's in this guy's best interest that more EMS units take his course, by law or regulation, if necessary.
This post was edited on 9/29/25 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:35 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
You don't need to ID the snake, the antivenom for a native North American venomous snake is all the same. Doctors don't need or want the snake or a picture of it. After you get to the hospital, ask three questions of the doctor(s): 1. Have you treated snakebites before? 2. What is your plan for an allergic reaction to the antivenom or the snakebite? 3. What is their plan if the first couple of rounds of antivenom don't work and the venom continues to progress and do damage?
A) There are three kinds of anti venom for American poisonous snakes. 1) One specific to a certain species of snake.
2) One that covers all American pit vipers.
3) One that covers coral snakes.
B) Asking a Dr specifically if he/she’s personally given antivenom is wasting time, the majority haven’t.
C) Allergic reactions tend to be treated similarly.
D) A bad bite will require you to get multiple doses of antivenom, monitored in an ICU. Had a lady a couple of months ago bitten by a copperhead, IIRC she got six doses of antivenom.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 4:47 pm to Kirk Herbstreit
quote:
Sounds like the policy that only “Wilderness Paramedics” can administer anti-venom is just an attempt to justify a need for another class and certification or a favor for a friend. I would love for their local medical director to work with the zoo and add the procedure of administering anti-venom to their protocols and see what happens.
This was an emergency situation with rapidly progressing life threatening consequences for the guy bitten.
You’re correct, if the zoo is going to keep those snakes they need to work with EMS on establishing protocols in case of bites.
The “Wilderness EMT” certification can be done in a week or so. While it’s certainly overkill, the zoo should at least be willing to split the price of certification.
Should this certification be necessary? Probably not. My guess is this board person criticizing them has a financial stake in the matter, which should be investigated.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 5:34 pm to Goombaw
Wow I was unaware I shouldn't be spraying water on my neighbors house because I am not a firefighter. And I damn sure will never turn of a breaker if someone is being electrocuted.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 5:50 pm to Goombaw
The plot thickens.
Barnes cancelled a contract with RedStar in March of this year. I wonder if the enforcement inquiry was in retaliation for the contract cancellation or vice versa.
Barnes cancelled a contract with RedStar in March of this year. I wonder if the enforcement inquiry was in retaliation for the contract cancellation or vice versa.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 6:31 pm to the808bass
According to google the cost of anti-venom ranges from $1,300 to $14,000. Tell me how many fire departments and ambulances services are going to pay that cost to have that anti-venom in their drug box that they will probably never use. You also have to consider the availability of actually getting the anti-venom and how long of a shelf life it has before expiring.
Looking at the class it looks like a Boy Scout level class that is a joke. This doctor seriously needs to be investigated.
Looking at the class it looks like a Boy Scout level class that is a joke. This doctor seriously needs to be investigated.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 6:37 pm to Kirk Herbstreit
The zoo stocked the antivenom. So the EMS workers were simply administering an IV or injection of the zoo’s medicine.
It’s a dumb case and the board reviewing it should feel dumb.
It’s a dumb case and the board reviewing it should feel dumb.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 6:51 pm to Goombaw
So they illegally saved his life. By this logic, they should send another team out with the snake to bite him again, so the correct team could administer the treatment.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 6:58 pm to Goombaw
I’d rather lose my license than let some person die that I knew I could save. Imagine trying to live your life knowing you are responsible for someone’s death because you were afraid of breaking a rule. frick that shite.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 7:32 pm to Goombaw
Why the frick do we have snakes like this in America? Keep that shite in Africa.
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:31 pm to SuperSaint
Paralysis?
Posted on 9/29/25 at 8:43 pm to Snipe
quote:
First thing that comes to mind is; does Kentucky have a good Samaritans law, (law stating you can not be charged if it can be proven that you are acting in the best interest of the person in need) , second, would trained EMS personnel be covered under said law if it exists? Lastly, anyone who charges these medics should be fired immediately.
EMTs and Paramedics operate under authority of a Medical Doctor while ON DUTY.
Most states and federal law covers them under Good Samaritan if OFF DUTY, however, this is about licensing for actions on duty not civil / criminal liability.
Common sense versus bureaucrats shall never in the middle meet.
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