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re: Just overheard a guy say "slavery wasn't racist"
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:33 am to Salmon
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:33 am to Salmon
the African slave trade itself actually refutes the idea that slavery was rooted in racism.
buy goods, load up a ship, go to west Africa, make contacts, trade goods for slaves, then load them up, haul them across the atlantic, make contacts, sell them, go back across the atlantic, buy more goods to trade for slaves and repeat the process...
they did that because it was their best option. no laws, no governments, no civilization, undeveloped world where European goods and weapons were worth more to people without legal tender and constantly at war with one another...
Europeans thought Africans were inferior, true...not because they were black though. it's because they were savages. if the financiers of these expeditions could have white peasants rounded up they would, and it would faster and cheaper.
African slavery negatively impacted black people...but that's slavery. I mean, the people you conquer tend to be the same race. this wasn't your multicultural utopia in the 16th century...they didn't have delta airlines
buy goods, load up a ship, go to west Africa, make contacts, trade goods for slaves, then load them up, haul them across the atlantic, make contacts, sell them, go back across the atlantic, buy more goods to trade for slaves and repeat the process...
they did that because it was their best option. no laws, no governments, no civilization, undeveloped world where European goods and weapons were worth more to people without legal tender and constantly at war with one another...
Europeans thought Africans were inferior, true...not because they were black though. it's because they were savages. if the financiers of these expeditions could have white peasants rounded up they would, and it would faster and cheaper.
African slavery negatively impacted black people...but that's slavery. I mean, the people you conquer tend to be the same race. this wasn't your multicultural utopia in the 16th century...they didn't have delta airlines
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Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:33 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Have you supplied an example yet cause at this point, it really just looks like you'd rather sharpshoot than provide insight into your theory.
example of what? racism?
I've already stated that I can't think of a single example of slavery that was not formed on the basis of racism
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:33 am to Errerrerrwere
quote:Welcome to liberalism where words mean what you want them to mean WHEN you want them to mean..........and don't when you don't.
Do you honestly think “American” is a race? You can’t be this dumb, baw.
And, he still hasn't provided an example.
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:34 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:Should be /thread
Slavery in and of itself isn't racist.
The brand of slavery the USA had was definitely race-driven.
But you'll get some pushback against
quote:
The brand of slavery the USA had was definitely race-driven.
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:34 am to beerJeep
quote:
How can Americans be racist against Americans? American is a race. You can't be racist against yourself.
is this where we pretend that there are not different cultures and heritages within America?
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:35 am to Salmon
quote:
I've already stated that I can't think of a single example of slavery that was not formed on the basis of racism
So. When whites have enslaved whites, describe how they fit your definition of racism. I've only asked like 5 times.
What did the white slaveowners think about the whites they enslaved that fits your definition?
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:35 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Welcome to liberalism where words mean what you want them to mean WHEN you want them to mean..........and don't when you don't.
holy shite the irony
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:35 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Do you feel anyone else had a significant role?
Yes, no buts there either
This post was edited on 2/9/18 at 11:36 am
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:36 am to ShortyRob
quote:
What did the white slaveowners think about the whites they enslaved that fits your definition?
that those whites were inferior based off their culture and heritage, which is the definition of racism
This post was edited on 2/9/18 at 11:37 am
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:37 am to Salmon
quote:
Disagreeing isn't racist.
It is when we inevitably find an ethnic fault line, and I value my opinion over yours. That's why we simply can't accept that English feeling superior to Irishmen is "racist" - nationalistic, maybe. "Religiousist" (because that was a bigger concern than genetics, honestly, in those recent struggles), but not racist. Why? They're all white, frankly. Irish isn't a race. Perhaps an ethnic subgroup of Celts, but English themselves have both organic Angle and (overwhelmingly) Saxon Germanic ancestry, Nordic Germanic ancestry from reverse assimilation of Vikings, Norman (also Germanic Viking) blood since 1066, French blood from the years of fighting with/occupying each other, as well as ancient Celtic (pre-Gallic and Gauls) and Latin blood going back just 2000 years.
So, there's all of that. Racism may not be purely skin color, large racial subgroup, but that's the starting point.
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:37 am to ShortyRob
quote:
It's a pretense when I hear people say "we need to have a conversation about race or racism".
I'm always like, "where the frick do you live? What planet did you travel here from?"
Cause we beat race into the fricking ground here.
You're strangely conflating everything I've said with these people
Nothing I've said has anything to do with the "let's have dialogue" people
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:39 am to Salmon
quote:
I've already stated that I can't think of a single example of slavery that was not formed on the basis of racism
Because you've consciously or unconsciously defined all differences as racism.
Are the Americo-Liberians racist towards the native African Liberians?
This post was edited on 2/9/18 at 11:40 am
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:40 am to Salmon
the only irony I see is that people in 2018 think more about and care more about race than 17th century sociopaths who actually enslaved black people and killed tens of millions of them just in the process of getting them across the atlantic
This post was edited on 2/9/18 at 11:48 am
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:42 am to JuiceTerry
quote:
you'll get some pushback against
The brand of slavery the USA had was definitely race-driven.
Yeah I've actually modified my wording of that over the years. Africans sold other Africans, so to say that it was just about racism is disingenuous. It wasn't even necessarily about targeting black people, per se. Slavery was tried with the native Americans but by and large they succumbed to european diseases too quickly to be a viable long term resource. So Europeans moved to exploit the next available resource (in their minds, that's how they viewed them) in Africans.
Chattel slavery in the US evolved into a caste/racist system, meaning race eventually became the bigger driver than simply an exploitation of resources. That's why it became a touchstone issue and eventually led to armed conflict as a means of resolution--the caste system was being threatened since Africans were becoming viewed as a less valuable commercial resource by non-Southerners.
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:44 am to Salmon
quote:
inferior based off their culture
Welcome to 2018.
Where racism no longer is even that bad a thing. Thanks to constantly evolving and expanding definitions from the left.
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:45 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Because you've consciously or unconsciously defined all differences as racism.
Most of them are and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is human nature. The defining moment is how we act upon those beliefs.
We, as a society, have bastardized the definitions of things so much where we can't even have a discussion about this anymore without people feigning outrage because you hear "racism" and you immediately associated with the worst possible outcomes.
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:45 am to Salmon
quote:
this where we pretend that there are not different cultures and heritages within America
Is this the part where we act like subculture of a main culture is still part of the main culture?
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:45 am to Salmon
quote:There's no irony to the fact that the word has been comically redefined
holy shite the irony
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:46 am to ShortyRob
quote:
There's no irony to the fact that the word has been comically redefined
The irony is that I'm not the one redefining it.
Posted on 2/9/18 at 11:46 am to DelU249
quote:
killed tens of millions of them just in the process of getting them across the atlantic
Tha frick you get that stat, Fox, the Nation of Islam?
2 million to 4 million are the best estimates we have - not to diminish those, but let's not go crazy with it, and over 400 years - 4 million (the high estimate, and that would be in the same league as the Jewish portion of the Holocaust) would be a terrible number - 25000 per year, on average. "10s" of millions implies more ships on the passage than existed, either in capacity or, in many cases, losing the entire ship.
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