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re: Just in -- Treasury’s $24 billion 30-year bond auction goes poorly today

Posted on 11/9/23 at 7:14 pm to
Posted by OceanMan
Member since Mar 2010
20053 posts
Posted on 11/9/23 at 7:14 pm to
quote:

Who would want to own our debt at this duration? Regardless of what happens with rates over that period, it’s obvious that the government intends to just inflate the debt away.


You know how few people, even in our own congress, even understand this? It was never factored into the grand economic equation that we couldn’t simply print money indefinitely counting on the same buyers.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51884 posts
Posted on 11/9/23 at 8:29 pm to
Okay, I misread what you posted. I thought you were stating we would be blowing through $1T in deficit spending in just Q1 2024.
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
18147 posts
Posted on 11/9/23 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

But ... Climate Change! DEI! Trans Rights!

And Covid! Don't forget Covid!
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
9696 posts
Posted on 11/9/23 at 8:35 pm to
quote:

Fiat monetary insanity.


Thank you to that fig John Maynard Keynes.
Posted by Tantal
Member since Sep 2012
14187 posts
Posted on 11/9/23 at 8:46 pm to
quote:

What are the Treasury's possible response to this?

Money printer go BRRRRRRR.
Posted by Wiseguy
Member since Mar 2020
3427 posts
Posted on 11/9/23 at 9:31 pm to
quote:

Would it force govt to cut spending if they can’t sell the bonds to borrow the money to cover it?


Oh you poor, sweet summer child.
Posted by OU Guy
Member since Feb 2022
9051 posts
Posted on 11/10/23 at 10:58 am to
Michigan 1yr inflation expectation had fallen all the way from 5.4 peak in mid 2022 to 3.2% at end of September

in just 2 months that 1yr number has jumped to 4.2% and now 4.4%

it suggests any hope of rate cuts in 2024 is a joke

far worse ?

is 5-10yr inflation expectation at 3.2%

thats the worst number since 2011 and its only been higher 1 month in the 21st century ( SEE BELOW )

CONSUMERS SEE OUR GOVT SPENDING IS OUT OF CONTROL AND WILL DRIVE INFLATION HIGHER FOR LONGER ABSENT SEVERE RECESSION

Posted by OU Guy
Member since Feb 2022
9051 posts
Posted on 11/10/23 at 11:30 am to
Massively stagflationary Michigan data out

horrible

1yr Inflation expectation spikes to 4.4% vs 4.0 hoped for vs 4.2% last month

5-10yr inflation expected goes up to 3.2% vs 3.0% expected vs 3.0 last month

Michigan sentiment at 60.4 vs 63.7 expected vs 63.8 last month

Michigan expectations fell to 56.9 vs 61 hoped for vs 59.3 last month

Michigan current conditions 65.7 vs 70.3 expected vs 70.6 last month

screams stagflation

THIS IS 100% DUE TO MASSIVE FEDERAL STIMULUS SPENDING THAT CONSUMERS KNOW IS SHORT TERM & NON-SUSTAINABLE

this data is precisely why you have almost every Fed gov talking about possible need for more hikes

DNC/ Joe Biden out of control debt funded spending on bullshite green infrastructure and Ukraine war drives inflation higher while we all know its fake prosperity for economy
Posted by ScottFowler
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2012
4164 posts
Posted on 11/10/23 at 11:41 am to
Knew that the pain would have to get worse to correct course. Well, here comes "hard times make hard men"...
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
53965 posts
Posted on 11/10/23 at 11:44 am to
quote:

We're about six weeks into fiscal year 2024, but if this year looks anything like last year, we can assume the federal government will continue to pile up debt at astonishing rates.

According to the September Monthly Treasury report, the US government accumulated an additional 1.7 trillion dollars in debt for the 2023 fiscal year, which ended October 31. That' up by $319 billion, or 23 percent, from the 2022 fiscal year. As recently as June, budget-watchers had estimated the year-end deficit would be $1.5 trillion, but deficits quickly added on an unexpected $200 billion by years' end:


quote:

The pace of increase, however, may have been even higher than 23 percent. As CNN noted, the $1.7 trillion number may reflect some creative accounting. As CNN reports, the Treasury Department reported the cancellation of Biden's student loan forgiveness program as a windfall for federal revenues, and thus reduced 2023's deficit by about $300 billion, bringing it down to $1.7 trillion. In other words, if we ignore the never-implemented student loan forgiveness program, the deficit actually doubled from FY 2022 to 2023. As CNN puts it: "The US Treasury Department listed the fiscal year 2022 deficit as $1.4 trillion because it took into account the cost of the president’s proposal. Without it, the deficit would have been closer to $1 trillion. ... The agency then logged the overturning of the cancellation plan as a savings for fiscal year 2023, which reduced the size of the deficit to $1.7 trillion."

So, the year-over-year increase in the deficit may have actually gone from about $1 trillion to $2 trillion—or an increase of 100 percent instead of 23 percent.

In any case, annual deficits are rapidly growing toward the unprecedented deficits of 2020 and 2021 when the federal government went deeply into debt to avoid an immediate economic catastrophe as a result of government-mandated lockdowns and business closures. In the wake of these enormous deficits, the national debt—the sum of accumulated annual deficits—has now topped $33 trillion. That's an increase of more than $6 trillion just since the beginning of the Covid Panic, and an increase of $18 trillion since the beginning of the 2008 financial crisis.

When Interest Rates Rise, Debt Becomes a Problem
Some jaded readers may now be telling themselves, "so what? ... the national debt has been huge for decades, and nothing catastrophic has happened." Things are different now because interest rates generally fell from the mid1980s to 2022. But that trend ended last year as the central bank was forced to allow interest rates to rise in an effort to combat price inflation. The new problem we now face arises from the fact that huge deficits are only manageable so long as interest rates remain very, very low. Once interest rates head upward, debt service on an enormous debt begins to swallow up large portions of federal revenues.

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