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re: John Kasich's GOP in Ohio rejects him! LMAO!

Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:14 pm to
Posted by SCLibertarian
Conway, South Carolina
Member since Aug 2013
42128 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

That's not how this works. You are innocent until proven guilty. The prosecution must prove you guilty. You don't have to prove yourself innocent.

You're conflating the state's burden of proof with the burden of proof regarding an affirmative defense. When an affirmative defense like self-defense or justification is raised, a Defendant is essentially admitting the act, but is simultaneously asserting that there are circumstances that legally excuse him from being guilty of the crime.

Example A: Defendant is charged with murder. His defense is that he didn't do it. The state has the burden of proof to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Example B: Defendant is charged with murder. His defense is that he acted in self-defense. Because the Defendant is essentially admitting the act that forms the basis for the charge, it's his burden to prove self-defense.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:15 pm to
As long as it brings the melts again...I'm down.
Posted by Friscodog
Frisco, TX
Member since Jul 2009
5066 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

As long as it brings the melts again...I'm down.


I don't believe anything will ever top the melt of Nov 9 2016. That was one for history books.
Posted by Rohan Gravy
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2017
20728 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:17 pm to
They should man up and switch parties to dems.
That’s what they are.

The worst of all politicians.

They can’t even admit that they are what they pretend to be against.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138874 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

has always been this way, and is that way everywhere.
bullshite!

A homeowner is hit in the head, concussed, and has no memory in an otherwise unwitnessed home invasion in which the intruder is killed. (As it turns out, in the intruder missed a strike at a second blow and as his body twisted, the homeowner shot the shot him in the back.) By your moronic standard, the amnestic homeowner could not prove a thing. So he'd be guilty by default . . . victimized twice.
Posted by KCT
Psalm 23:5
Member since Feb 2010
49898 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:18 pm to
Kasich is a huge phony. He actually said just 1-2 months ago that he could no longer try to be supportive of President Trump. What a crock of crap. Kasich has NEVER supported Trump; he didn't go to the convention or even appear with Trump at rallies in Ohio.

In fact, it was John Kasich who was scheduled to speak in Washington just 2 days after the 2016 election, but he canceled the speech. Why? Because Donald Trump won, and Kasich's speech was going to be all about trashing Trump and talking about "taking back" the GOP from the people Hillary had called a basket of deplorables.

Kasich is a HUGE PHONY. I guess it's only fitting that his biggest 1-2 supporters on this forum are huge phonies, too.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
76732 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:19 pm to
I don't know. I think we'll elect a woman at some point. A black or Hispanic Republican woman would bring the best melts.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138874 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:20 pm to
quote:

This entire discussion pre-supposes that the prosecutor chooses to pursue charges
Either you are unfamiliar with agenda driven prosecutors, or you are being disingenuous. My guess is it's the latter.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91838 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

bullshite!


It's not bullshite.

Self-defense has the burden of proof on the defendant in every state in this country except Ohio.
Posted by ILeaveAtHalftime
Member since Sep 2013
2889 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:30 pm to
quote:

A homeowner is hit in the head, concussed, and has no memory in an otherwise unwitnessed home invasion in which the intruder is killed. (As it turns out, in the intruder missed a strike at a second blow and as his body twisted, the homeowner shot the shot him in the back.) By your moronic standard, the amnestic homeowner could not prove a thing. So he'd be guilty by default . . . victimized twice.


This case would never be brought to trial. And the evidence of a concussion would easily be enough for reasonable doubt even if it were.

Btw it’s not my standard. It’s the well established standard everywhere in any court.
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
49521 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

It is nice to watch Kasich get overridden though


All day - every day

As to the 'prove it' = I would not object to being required to define my mental state and the indications I interpreted to be a danger to me.

But to PROVE the guy would have killed me had I done nothing = does not compute.

No problem with defending my state of mind - perhaps I misread the intent of the OP
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 12:32 pm
Posted by ILeaveAtHalftime
Member since Sep 2013
2889 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

you are unfamiliar with agenda driven prosecutor


You’re unfamiliar with the law.

You’re arguing against one of the most established and basic legal principles in existence.

Besides, this entire discussion is about shifting the burden of proof at trial. Not where charges aren’t brought. The agenda of a prosecutor who filed charges in this context isn’t relevant to the burden shift itself, or the legal costs of a defendant at trial.
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 12:40 pm
Posted by KCT
Psalm 23:5
Member since Feb 2010
49898 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

Kasich lacks any self awareness if he thinks he will have any sort of mass support if he runs for President in 2020. 


This is true, but I believe that even Kasich knows he can't get elected President. My one concern here is that the Establishment will fund a 3rd party presidential run consisting of a tandem of bought-and-paid-for GOPe types. Kasich/Ryan, for example. Flake could perhaps be on the ticket.

Could they win? Of course not. But the "mission" would not be winning. The goal would be to siphon off enough votes in close states to defeat Trump & give the Presidency back to the Establishment Democrat. Could that conceivably happen? All one has to do is look at the 20016 MOV in states like Pennsylvania, Michigan & Wisconsin to know the answer.

I still think President Trump wins in 2020, but don't think for one second that we won't see some sort of 3rd Party RINO ticket on the ballot. Donald Trump's only crime was winning the Presidency as an OUTSIDER, and the Deep State will do every thing it can to stop him from winning reelection.
Posted by ILeaveAtHalftime
Member since Sep 2013
2889 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

But to PROVE the guy would have killed me had I done nothing = does not compute.


That’s not the burden either. The specific definition varies by state, but you will merely need to show that you were in legitimate fear of serious bodily harm, or perhaps loss of property in some states, or that the guy was in your house, etc. Different states have different laws on that front. But under no state law will you have to prove that he would have killed you had you not acted.
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
49521 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

Kasich is a huge phony.


Back before anyone had announced their intentions to run for the GOP candidacy, I mused that Kasich would be a great candidate = remembered his work in the 90s on the budget, was governor of Ohio, an important state = was the extent of my vetting of him.

I then added Gov Walker from WI to my 'want' list.

Then came Cruz and I immediately became part of his entourage - and never wavered.

Kasich turned out to be a complete asshat - sorry I ever held a fond thought of him.
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
49521 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

Kasich knows he can't get elected President


True = My fear is that he will run 3rd party just to siphon votes from Trump.
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91838 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:40 pm to
quote:

perhaps I misread the intent of the OP


The OP, like many of the threads started here, is framed in such a way to conform to the OP's bias.

The fact of the matter is Kasich vetoed a bill that passed self defense reforms you won't find in any state in this country. Even Texas requires you to prove self defense.
This post was edited on 12/28/18 at 12:41 pm
Posted by Dead End
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2013
21237 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

Kasich 2020


Never go full liberal / retard.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138874 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

You’re unfamiliar with the law.

You’re arguing against one of the most established and basic legal principles in existence.

Besides, this entire discussion is about shifting the burden of proof at trial. Not where charges aren’t brought. The agenda of a prosecutor who filed charges in this context isn’t relevant to the burden shift itself, or the legal costs of a defendant at trial.
Suspicions confirmed . . . disingenuous.
You are a lawyer, I presume?
Posted by ILeaveAtHalftime
Member since Sep 2013
2889 posts
Posted on 12/28/18 at 1:27 pm to
What is disengenious in that post?


You have yet to actually respond to any discussion in this whole thread. You must be strannix’s alter.
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