re: Joel Osteens church gets burglarized over night.

I told the guard at the gate I was there to wash his car

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Id imagine the online and drop box donations equal another 1-200k. So let's say they bring in 750k every Sunday.

That is 39m a year

I'd love to know what % of that is given to needy people and then also what % goes to olsteen and his staff.

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Meh...I couldn't care less. Freely given. Who am I to say what needs to be done with the money.

I have seen ZERO evidence of fiduciary abuse in this thread. I have no issue with success. Even if it is in a field that I personally find silly.

I'm sure ole Joel will turn the other cheek. What a faker he is.

Damn, PTM, you didn'tt have to call me a liberal. That hurts

Look, if somebody comes up with some stupid idea for a product, like Chia pets, and they make $100 million dollars, I'm fine with that. That's business.

Preaching the Gospel is a different dynamic. People aren't supposed to use Christianity in order to become super rich. When your asking for donations and selling Christian literature, you're supposed to have an independent BOD, and they are supposed to set a reasonable salary for the pastor and other top-level employees.

Not only that, but he's not even a real preacher. He waters down the message in order to attract as many people as possible. He's really nothing more than a motivational speaker who throws in the name of Jesus once or twice so he can answer his many critics.

Obviously, Joel Osteen and Family control their BOD. That family is worth millions and millions of dollars.

Like I said earlier, Joel Osteen isn't the only phony. Some sources have estimated Benny Hinn's net worth as high as $100 million.

That's simply not right.

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People have to want to hear you to be their minister. Don't see a congregation offering you any call. Even the 20 member ones.

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Oh, how hypocritical.

Good discussion, and I freely admit that my take on Joel Osteen and the Osteen family is in the minority on this board. In this discussion, anyway.

That's cool. It's just that I personally see a lot of con men (and women)among those who have television ministries, and it really bothers me. I don't think anybody should be using the Word of God to get filthy rich.

I also think that Osteen is more of a motivational speaker than anything else, and I think that's a deliberate strategy in order to maximize the following. Larry King asked him a few years ago if a person had to believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior in order to go to Heaven, and he said that wasnt for him to say. Really? That's the core tenet of the Christian religion.

But, that's just the way I see it. Obviously, I have not contributed a dime towards him becoming a multi-millionaire.

I interned at a church in California a few years ago. Probably averaged 2-3k in attendance every Sunday.

Christians are called to tithe on 10% of their earnings. Say in a congregation of 2,000, that the average salary is 2,000 a month. So if everyone tithes 10% that is about $50 per congregation member per week, 50 x 2000 = $100,000 per week or 5.2 million per year

First and foremost the church I interned at paid a tithe on the tithes and offerings received each week. So if $100,000 came in through the offering plate, $10,000 would be paid out as a tithe.

Our lead pastor was paid by the denomination, not the Church. The Church paid the salaries of the assistants and staff. The staff really didn't make that much money. Also remember Churches have to pay for facilities, utilities, materials, etc. and our campus had 5 buildings.


Then the church paid out their charities and ministries, such as the food bank ministry and the international missions ministries.

Needless to say, the Church ran at a loss almost every week and year(they published the budget in the ministry guide each week). Even though 10% is what Christians should give, a lot of people don't tithe.

I can assure you that at least the church I interned at, we weren't swimming in money or using the money the church brought in for personal gain or use.

Thieves stole from a thief...oh well.

Most ministers aren't getting filthy rich. They believe there's a calling on their life to preach th Word, and that's their primary focus.

I think ministers should make a good salary. But some of the televangelists are clearly con men. Hey, if you can con me with a late night infomercial, that's on me. But, the Word of God should not be used by con men. That's deplorable.

Most of those televangelists will tell people that they have an independent BOD who set their salary. That's what Marcus Lamb, founder of Daystar TV Network, tells people. What he doesn't tell people is that they have a 4-person BOD, and Marcus, his wife Joni, and another family member occupy 3 of the 4 spots. They also refuse to divulge their salaries, btw.

I guess one difference of opinion here regards whether ministers should be able to make outrageous salaries. Imo, because of the nature of their work and also because people are making donations to them, they are wrong to be making outrageous salaries. Its a different dynamic from other businesses, but obviously some of you don't see it that way.

If you don't think some of these guys are con men, do a little research on Benny Hinn sometime. Or, just watch somebody like James Robison for a week. All that guy ever does is talk about poor people in Africa, the need to dig water wells, etc. But if you have DVR, freeze the screen and read the "disclaimer" at the end. It says that, unless a person specifically stipulates how a donation is to be used, that the ministry is free to use donations any way they see fit.

I know a televangelist that I KNOW is on the level. He told me one time that he was advised to run spots about poor people in Africa, because that is a proven way to increase donations. The guy told them that he didn't even have an outreach in Africa, but they told him it didn't matter. They said a lot of the other ministries didn't, either.

Imo, that's just wrong.

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And why are people so fricking literal?

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Semantics turn me on.