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Message
re: Jo Jorgensen is the Actual Answer
Posted on 6/21/20 at 5:08 pm to RamboMizzou
Posted on 6/21/20 at 5:08 pm to RamboMizzou
quote:
Democrats and Republicans have become big government parties and I don't see how anyone could vote for either one.
I had this conversation with my wife last night. She’s a big Trump supporter. Name one thing Trump has done as the “outsider” to drain the swamp. The answer is, of course, nothing. In fact, he’s made gov’t bigger and more obtrusive. The irony/stupidity of him resigning the Patriot Act and FISA legislation should be proof enough of this for all except the most ardent Trumpkin. Let’s not even get started on all the debt hie’s added or how he crushed his own economy with his moronic, big gov’t corona virus response.
To all the open borders parrots: you can have open borders if you eliminate the welfare state and the war on drugs. However, Republicans have ZERO interest in reducing the size of gov’t or reliance on the nanny state they’ve created.
As always, I will vote and financially support the Libertarians this cycle as I have for thirty years. How anyone in their right minds could vote for either of these two dementia patients is beyond me. I thought Clinton/Trump was the low point of shite Sandwich vs Total Douche. Biden/Trump is taking it to another level.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 5:36 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
I had this conversation with my wife last night. She’s a big Trump supporter. Name one thing Trump has done as the “outsider” to drain the swamp. The answer is, of course, nothing. In fact, he’s made gov’t bigger and more obtrusive. The irony/stupidity of him resigning the Patriot Act and FISA legislation should be proof enough of this for all except the most ardent Trumpkin. Let’s not even get started on all the debt hie’s added or how he crushed his own economy with his moronic, big gov’t corona virus response.
If you're truly honest you know Trump ain't draining the Swamp unless the full weight of the American citizenry is on his side. Guess what? A sizeable percentage of Americans deny the Swamp exists, because if they were to admit the Swamp exists it would mean they would have to stand against their Dim party. Yeah, I know the R's are part of the Swamp too but there are more R voters who are willingly to call the R Swampers out. As long as the Swamp is anti Trump the Prog/Dim leftists are good with it.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 5:53 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
If you're truly honest you know Trump ain't draining the Swamp unless the full weight of the American citizenry is on his side.
Another apologist. The POTUS is the chief executive of the country. He can literally fire and replace any and every federal employee if he wants. Instead, we have to listen to him incessantly bitch about the Obama holdovers undermining his efforts instead of simply replacing them or eliminating the positions.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:01 pm to walley tux
quote:This poor poster is trying so hard.
so as a libtardtarian you supported the draft?
you see you guys always phuck up and reveal yourself's for what you really are, liberals who are embarrassed to call yourselves liberal democrats. you're not fooling anybody
Admire the effort, bless his heart.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:02 pm to RamboMizzou
quote:
Yet, 98% of y'all are going to vote for a city slicking, draft dodging America divider for what good reason?
Because I live in Florida.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:07 pm to RamboMizzou
Libertarian party has been around 50 years. Can you name the highest elected libertarian in office today without googling them?
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:12 pm to PsychTiger
quote:idiotic statement. Getting a 3rd party to 5% in a general election is pretty much the ONLY way your vote can actually matter
The question being, “What is the best way to throw away my vote in 2020?”
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:31 pm to RamboMizzou
I would be all for Libertarian candidates if they could get through their thick skulls that libertarian ideas only extend as far as your national border. Until then, they are 100% no go for me. No open borders and no trade seals that destroy our country.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:38 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
He can literally fire and replace any and every federal employee if he wants.
I'm not exactly an expert on federal employment, but I'm 99.9% positive that's false. There are X jobs that are political appointees; those he has complete control over. Federal employees aren't appointed. He can't just walk into the FBI, pick a person and tell them to clean out their desk. He'd have to have cause, it would go through HR, etc etc etc.
That's not a defense, BTW. He's had some good picks but he's had some horribly bad ones that he should have known were bad; Priebus and Bolton come to mind. I get that you can't set up a presidential administration without tapping into some of DC, but this is one area where he's been mediocre at best.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:40 pm to RamboMizzou
I’ve really thought about voting for her but I can’t waste a vote, this election is to important.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:40 pm to RamboMizzou
Fun fact: I'm not voting for a president because of his class.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:43 pm to RamboMizzou
quote:
Interests: Drugs
Checks out
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:44 pm to RamboMizzou
quote:
Believes in small government.
Believes in actual freedom.
Has a full working brain.
Open boarders, unfair trade, and all the government that comes with taking care of illegal immigrants and unemployed Americans. No fricking thanks. China and Mexico love the Libertarian Party.. bunch of clown useful idiots.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 6:54 pm to KCT
quote:
These are empty words that don't mean a damn thing. When Trump had almost everybody in the country working, was that "classless" and "toxic"? When he had China on the ropes regarding trade, were you REALLY worried that he was classless or toxic?
Well said. These Libertarians really do have their heads firmly placed in their own asses.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 7:02 pm to RamboMizzou
quote:
Jo is going to take away from independents and moderate democrats way more than the right.
You gathered this based on what? CNN?
The opinion above, stated as though it were factual, is something that I totally disagree with. Only a moron or cuck would vote “Jo.”
This post was edited on 6/21/20 at 7:37 pm
Posted on 6/21/20 at 7:04 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Open boarders
Again, this only works when you end the drug war and welfare. You’ll never find a Libertarian to tell you otherwise. I love how Republicans always leave this part out. They just love the police state and nanny state too much to let it go. Without the handouts and without the drug lords tearing Central and South America apart, the only immigrants you will have are the ones looking to work and assimilate.
quote:
unfair trade
Another favorite. You don’t need trade agreements for free trade. The market fixes these imbalances on its own. Gov’t involvement retards the market and taxes consumers or producers or both in its efforts to “fix” the problems.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 7:22 pm to Aubie Spr96
So, after you open the boarders, and send American jobs back to China, you expect us to believe that all of the additional illegals and unemployed Americans aren’t going to need MORE government assistance? Who is going to pay for their healthcare and unemployment? Small government Libertarians? GTFO of here with your shortsighted nonsense.
Posted on 6/21/20 at 7:55 pm to TigerWise
quote:
Open borders
The LP is a tentacle of the Kochtopus....
Bernie, the Koch Brothers, and Open Borders...
quote:
“Open borders? No, that’s a Koch brothers proposal....That’s a right-wing proposal, which says essentially there is no United States.”
“It would make everybody in America poorer — you’re doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don’t think there’s any country in the world that believes in that... If you believe in a nation state or in a country called the United States or the United Kingdom or Denmark or any other country, you have an obligation in my view to do everything we can to help poor people.” Bernie Sanders.
In just a few sentences, Sanders manages to demonstrate a hodgepodge of nativist, nationalist, protectionist, and socialist sentiments. But for anyone wondering why he wandered off the progressive narrative on immigration, it’s because protectionist labor unions pay him better than, say, La Raza.
Sanders's comments reflect the widely and deeply held belief that nations are defined by states. This may be an uncomfortable reality for libertarians, but it is reality nonetheless.
National borders by definition are political boundaries. They mark the edge of a particular territory over which a political entity — a state — claims exclusive jurisdiction.
Since political borders require states, “open borders” is an oxymoron. Nothing controlled by government is “open,” whether we’re talking about the New York City taxi market or federal ethanol subsidies or the Brownsville, Texas border bridge. States require borders because they are defined by borders.
So from the statist perspective, Sanders is right: you can’t have large centralized states and unregulated borders, because those borders are at the heart of the state’s identity and its raison d’etre: control.
Immigration is a tricky issue for libertarians precisely because the very concepts of states, borders, and “public” land (the commons) are wholly inconsistent with a political and legal philosophy based on self-ownership and property rights. It’s hard to speak rationally about immigration under the present circumstances, because we’re so far from a free society that we risk piling one kind of illibertarian “solution” upon another.
While the understandable libertarian impulse is to comport our principles with the innately human desire for free migration, we too often forget that the Noble Immigrant archetype is rooted in a statist view of immigration: one controlled by the state, in which public space trumps private property and free association. The benefits and detriments of immigration are weighed only in terms of their impact on the state.
In a libertarian society, there is no commons or public space. There are property lines, not borders. When it comes to real property and physical movement across such real property, there are owners, guests, licensees, business invitees, and trespassers — not legal and illegal immigrants.
Admittedly, it might be quite difficult to establish rightful (lawful) property owners under some sort of Lockean homesteading analysis — even in a nation as young as the US. While left-libertarians generally are absolutist regarding unfettered immigration, they will entertain “halfway” arguments about the most libertarian path available in a statist world on other topics (e.g. publicly-issued marriage licenses). But if Hans-Hermann Hoppe offers an interim argument for dealing with the societal costs imposed by immigrants given our current system of “public goods” and entitlements, he is considered a wrongheaded statist. The same progressives and left-libertarians who champion tort liability for corporations when it comes to environmental damage fall strangely silent on the enormous externalities caused by human migration.
Let’s be clear: the tendencies of a society based on property rights may well make progressives and left-libertarians quite unhappy. Such a society necessarily entails freedom of association and its corollary, the right to exclude. Free association would allows regions to develop naturally based on (gasp) shared familial, economic, linguistic, social, and cultural interests. Contra the DNC, government is not “the only thing we all belong to.”
This is not to say that a libertarian concept of naturally arising “nations” entails a clannish retreat into suspicious enclaves. Surely a free society would have regions where market demand for the cosmopolitan benefits of life in a multicultural society prevails (imagine a stateless Singapore). But multicultural social democracies with vast welfare states, like Western Europe and the US, did not arise through the “market.” They are big-government constructs, and they are quickly becoming unsustainable. Multicultural welfare states are a recipe for disaster.
Unfortunately, it appears for now we are stuck with the likes of Mr. Sanders and his faulty concept of nation-states. But if we want to advocate for a freer society, we need to apply first principles rather than sentimentality. There is a deep-rooted and natural human preference for the familiar face over the stranger, and human migration in a free society is likely to reflect this reality....
Posted on 6/21/20 at 8:22 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
open the boarders
If by open borders, you mean lifted immigration restrictions and easy to obtain work visas, then yes.
quote:
send American jobs back to China
Why would jobs for back to China? Interestingly, it was engineered trade agreements that created the imbalances in the first place.
quote:
you expect us to believe that all of the additional illegals and unemployed Americans aren’t going to need MORE government assistance?
If welfare and social services are eliminated, it’ll be hard for anyone to get them outside of private charities wouldn’t you agree?
quote:
Who is going to pay for their healthcare and unemployment?
Not the tax payer.
quote:
Small government Libertarians? GTFO of here with your shortsighted nonsense.
Again, this is comical and sad at the same time. You realize the VAST majority of the Founding Fathers would identify as Libertarian. Love the small gov’t Republicans arguing for the continuation of the welfare state and the drug war.
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