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re: Israel / Hamas in a biblical context - any content recs?
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:01 am to bayoubengals88
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:01 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
People believe whatever they think is true.
This is the very essence of the Protestant Revolution.
2
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:04 am to Champagne
quote:I won't cede that because 500 years later, I myself don't suffer from it. I have a tremendous respect for tradition, especially early catholic tradition.
This is the very essence of the Protestant Revolution.
Also, if you look at the early Protestant confessions they are remarkably similar.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:10 am to BigBro
quote:
Every single baby born is sinless at birth
Some Protestants believe in Original Sin. Some Protestants do not believe in Original Sin. It's all up to what your local Pastor says is the Objective Truth. The fact that we can simultaneously have two completely different objective truths is not important to the Protestant because he can merely declare the matter unimportant by virtue of being a topic not essential to Salvation.
Some Protestants believe that their deceased Grandmother can pray for them while she's up there right now in Heaven. Other Protestants believe that her dead bones are in her grave and she's just DEAD and doing what dead people do, which is being completely non-existent. It just depends on what the local Pastor teaches with regard to what is the "objective truth."
These realities stem from the very fundamental nature of the Protestant Revolution of 500 years ago. That Revolution took the Objective Truth that was established already then for 1,500 years and smashed it to bits with a sledgehammer, then loudly declared "I shall make a NEW objective truth, based on my own understanding. When I say that the Holy Spirit has guided me, you shall know that my objective truth is accurate."
That's what my own studies have taught me about the issue.
I won't contribute any more to this thread. There are other Catholic commentators in this thread who are better at this, anyway.
In closing, I will say that I agree with Foo's post about eschatology. It's one of his first posts in this thread. I think that his view on this matter is in accord with the official Roman Catholic view, and this is one of the several issues on which his denomination and mine agree.
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 10:15 am
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:47 am to BigBro
quote:
Every single baby born is sinless at birth
Original sin was universally preached and believed in the new covenant church from the very nanosecond it was formed in 33AD until the Anabaptist church was created in the 1520s (despite was CorchJay says about it having existed for all time), and thus, so too was the need for infant baptism.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:52 am to FooManChoo
quote:
stretch the credulity of the Scriptures
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:02 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
I won't cede that because 500 years later, I myself don't suffer from it.
Surely you can recognize that removing the mandate for man to submit to mother Church (Magisterium) and Tradition and Scripture instead of individuals "buying in" to their favorite group of like minded "individuals" (whether they have written a confession or not) is the hallmark of protestantism that gives birth to the stuff playing out in non-denom churches today?
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:12 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
Every single baby born is sinless at birth,
quote:
Just my opinion.
This is the problem with non-denominationalism and lack of confessionality.
People believe whatever they think is true.
We actually have a pretty good idea of how this all turns out. Look up Luther's response to Peasant's Revolt and the actions of Bockelson and Munster. As non-denoms grow more common and less grounded in the formalities if Tradition and Magesterium we will see greater and greater degrees of heresy pop up (all protestants reject the authority of them, though many retain the form).
The landscape is ripe for Nestorian-like heresies to return as the hyper individualism of the reformation plays out. I fear that we won't be arguing about dispensationalism in the next few decades but will be arguing about the Trinity and other core tenets of the Christian faith.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:18 am to Stitches
quote:
the need for infant baptism
Interestingly enough, the roots of most non-denominationals lie in Baptist thought and practices. Whether it is their approach to church as a confederation/limited (or no) hierarchy or their abuse of the Sacraments through rebaptism or "symbolic outward expression of inward piety" Baptism, the surface level roots of this stuff lay with the baptists. It for sure goes deeper to Luther, but the mainline Protestants kept a lid on some of it.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:23 am to Champagne
They are wrong. All fall short.
Romans 3
For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
Romans 3
For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 11:25 am to Foch
quote:
Surely you can recognize that removing the mandate for man to submit to mother Church (Magisterium) and Tradition and Scripture instead of individuals "buying in" to their favorite group of like minded "individuals" (whether they have written a confession or not) is the hallmark of protestantism that gives birth to the stuff playing out in non-denom churches today?
Not the essence, but the result or outcome, yes.
Well said.
It is truly unfortunate.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 1:00 pm to SirWinston
Jesus reveals Ezekiel’s prophetic war
Basically uses Ezekiel 38 and 39 and Revelation 6:1-8 to draw attention to what is perhaps going on with this war.
Time will tell, but I do find the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse reference to be quite illuminating.
Red Horse (Revelation 6:4)
Green Horse (Revelation 6:8) (Original Greek word is khloros, which translates to pale green)
White Horse (Revelation 6:2)
Black Horse (Revelation 6:5)
They also use the below mark to indicate it is the mark on their foreheads or hands (Revelation 13:16)
Basically uses Ezekiel 38 and 39 and Revelation 6:1-8 to draw attention to what is perhaps going on with this war.
Time will tell, but I do find the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse reference to be quite illuminating.
Red Horse (Revelation 6:4)
Green Horse (Revelation 6:8) (Original Greek word is khloros, which translates to pale green)
White Horse (Revelation 6:2)
Black Horse (Revelation 6:5)
They also use the below mark to indicate it is the mark on their foreheads or hands (Revelation 13:16)
Posted on 10/17/23 at 6:53 pm to Dixie2023
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:22 pm to Champagne
The Jude scripture is about people already saved. Not original sin or sin prior to salvation through Christ.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:28 pm to SirWinston
I ties directly into the Bible. They were fighting during biblical times and have never stopped.
Posted on 10/17/23 at 10:57 pm to Dixie2023
The Greek word Kecharitomene is important.
Also, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, and the Mother of God, so, it makes sense that God would "gift" her with the special grace of being born without Original Sin and remaining sinless.
Kecharitomene, is a unique word and is very important in the context of Gabriel addressing Mary.
It is not enough to take a phrase that Paul dictates in a letter to the Romans and then use that as a proof text about Mary. Paul wasn't talking about that subject at the time. It is more reasonable and logical to study and meditate on all aspects of the issue, because it is complex and takes some time to understand.
Here's another helpful article on the topic
LINK
Also, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, and the Mother of God, so, it makes sense that God would "gift" her with the special grace of being born without Original Sin and remaining sinless.
Kecharitomene, is a unique word and is very important in the context of Gabriel addressing Mary.
It is not enough to take a phrase that Paul dictates in a letter to the Romans and then use that as a proof text about Mary. Paul wasn't talking about that subject at the time. It is more reasonable and logical to study and meditate on all aspects of the issue, because it is complex and takes some time to understand.
Here's another helpful article on the topic
LINK
This post was edited on 10/17/23 at 10:58 pm
Posted on 10/18/23 at 9:10 am to Champagne
The Protestant Reformation* was a response to the corruption and false teachings of the Catholic Church for several hundred years. Yes it’s easy to pick on Protestantism as a whole because of churches that are woke or led by Joel Osteen types but there are also several biblically based Protestant or non-denominational churches as well.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 9:35 am to TankBoys32
quote:
The Protestant Reformation* was a response to the corruption and false teachings of the Catholic Church for several hundred years.
Corruption, yes. False teachings, no. You can't call it a "reformation", when you basically just come up with an entirely new system from scratch.
quote:
there are also several biblically based Protestant or non-denominational churches as well.
One Holy Spirit leading people into all truth and 40,000 different denominations and counting. So, either the Holy Spirit is intentionally sewing division amongst the Christian community, or, the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with it.
For instance, some bible-alone churches reject eternal security while the reformed community by and large affirm it. Some affirm baptismal regeneration and, therefore, the need for infant baptism. Others believe in believers baptism and say it's just a symbol for salvation, but doesn't play a role in salvation. There are those who believe in monergism, and then those on the complete opposite end of the spectrum who affirm synergism. Some affirm real presence in the eucharist, others say its just a symbol. All of whom derive these various and conflicting "truths" from scripture alone.
How do you square that?
This post was edited on 10/18/23 at 9:42 am
Posted on 10/18/23 at 9:45 am to Stitches
Brother I am not a master theologian I’m just saying that no human or church probably gets it completely right because at the end of the day they are all led by flawed humans including the Catholic Church.
People and churches get so wound up on traditions and history and rituals when they need to focus on the basic truths that God exists, Jesus Christ is God woven into flesh as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins, he will return, and to Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor… among a few other main points you are probably familiar with.
I don’t think Jesus is going to deny me salvation depending if I think Mary was sinless or not among other things that were debated in this thread
People and churches get so wound up on traditions and history and rituals when they need to focus on the basic truths that God exists, Jesus Christ is God woven into flesh as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins, he will return, and to Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor… among a few other main points you are probably familiar with.
I don’t think Jesus is going to deny me salvation depending if I think Mary was sinless or not among other things that were debated in this thread
Posted on 10/18/23 at 10:55 am to Stitches
quote:
40,000 different denominations
That would be 40,001. The first split as all Catholic say was from Catholicism. Can’t remove that split because it doesn’t support your argument. Most Protestants denominations don’t want a pyramid structure of governance like the Catholic Church. And if you truly believe that the Catholic Church to be the “true church” which goes completely against the biblical definition of the church then why attack Protestants we are just babbling bible thumpers right?
Posted on 10/18/23 at 11:31 am to SirWinston
quote:
I realize I might be asking for the moon here, but does anyone have any podcast, YT, or Rumble recommendations for intelligent content that speculates on how this could tie into some of the prophecies in Revelation?
Sure
Here ya go
Straight from Jesus' mouth himself
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