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re: Is anyone here not happy that Maduro was removed?
Posted on 1/4/26 at 9:57 am to stout
Posted on 1/4/26 at 9:57 am to stout
quote:
I don’t think we will turn our back on Venezuela again after this, and our influence will be obvious over the next decade. Time will tell whether that ends up being positive or negative, but we can’t afford to let China and Russia have not just an ally so close to us, but one with such an abundance of oil.
China only has about 25 billion barrels of crude reserves. They needed Venezuela, and now that we control it, China will have to factor that in when considering the risks of invading Taiwan and facing sanctions.
That's not to even mention Iran and Russia and their interest in Venezuela
For those reasons, we can't let Venezuela fail like other regime changes due to the failure of the 70s CIA and the effects of the Cold War.
This brings up a different point, as I completely understand the justification from a Cold War-era Kissinger-style realpolitik, but, as you referenced, we are STILL dealing with the fallout form that.
Also, this very foreign policy has been criticized by MAGA forever. It's how we became the "bad guy" with Russia, for example.
This post was edited on 1/4/26 at 9:58 am
1
Posted on 1/4/26 at 9:59 am to lurking
quote:
I’d argue that every military action taken by Trump has been done so with great concern for the failures of previous administrations. He’s earned some benefit of the doubt.
He's only been pushing neocon policy for a few months. There is not enough time/data to earn the benefit of the doubt.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:00 am to geauxbrown
quote:
Would you not contribute much of that outcome to the Soviets…..who are now dead?
In this scenario "the Soviets" = "Russia/China" who are not dead.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:00 am to VOR
Likely one of the tougher things to navigate will be the meddling that China and Russia will continue to do. Those two had great aspirations in Venezuela and won’t go quietly.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:00 am to IvoryBillMatt
No one here is upset about Maduro being ousted. All you see are concerns for what comes next. Acting like that's unreasonable is what makes the poliboard the poliboard.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Also, this very foreign policy has been criticized by MAGA forever.
I think it hits a little differently when it's in our hemisphere instead of the Middle East or Africa
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Russia/China are not dead.
Russia can’t win a war against a country run by a guy who wears a track suit to work.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:03 am to SlowFlowPro
You are comparing South American Catholic Christians with third world Muslim savages? Bad start..
You realize the US has a long history of meddling with South and Central America, right? The vast majority of the time it hasn't ended well.
You say meddling, I would suggest about time someone decides watching our arse, as a Doctrine was created just for that.
quote:
If you have even a hint of geopolitical knowledge anyone honest understands this changes everything with China, Russia and Iran.
Changes "everything"? No.
Most likely that’s will be a yes if leadership is voted in and away from socialism as they should have completed that experiment there
Expands globalism? Likely
How is hoping movement away from socialism likely to expand globalism, an idea you seem to both expect and possibly support ?
Venezuela’s government was actively involved with China, Russia, India, Cuba and a host of other nations that actually made up the largest percentage of population of the world, I would think that was more akin in globalization meaning.
You realize the US has a long history of meddling with South and Central America, right? The vast majority of the time it hasn't ended well.
You say meddling, I would suggest about time someone decides watching our arse, as a Doctrine was created just for that.
quote:
If you have even a hint of geopolitical knowledge anyone honest understands this changes everything with China, Russia and Iran.
Changes "everything"? No.
Most likely that’s will be a yes if leadership is voted in and away from socialism as they should have completed that experiment there
Expands globalism? Likely
How is hoping movement away from socialism likely to expand globalism, an idea you seem to both expect and possibly support ?
Venezuela’s government was actively involved with China, Russia, India, Cuba and a host of other nations that actually made up the largest percentage of population of the world, I would think that was more akin in globalization meaning.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:03 am to stout
quote:
I think it hits a little differently when it's in our hemisphere
I understand that's the pivot, but it's not.
I mean like it's out there. You can go look up how MAGA people cited "The CIA" and various ops in Central/South America for their "America is the bad guy" and "Globalism" messaging.
And this hemispherical/regional power dynamic also implies China has domain over Taiwan, so I don't think we want to go there, either.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:04 am to geauxbrown
quote:
Russia can’t win a war against a country run by a guy who wears a track suit to work.
The Soviets couldn't win one against goat frickers living in the 1800s
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:05 am to Bourre
quote:
You’re just mad no one believes your leftist drivel. You act like your post in other threads aren’t visible. You leftist have cried about taking Maduro out since it’s happened.
You are an insufferable liar. Point to ONE post where I have cried about Maduro being taken out....or have even taken a leftist position?
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:05 am to stout
quote:It was closer to 30 years, but neither number is particularly impressive.
Are you just ignoring that Venezuela was a Democracy for 40 years until oil prices collapsed and ultimately opened the door for Chavez?
And the Venezuelan people IMMEDIATELY ran back into the arms of a caudillo, as soon as their economy hit a rough spot.
THAT is the point.
This post was edited on 1/4/26 at 10:15 am
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:06 am to SlowFlowPro
Exactly
I would assume with Trump, if they begin trying to funnel weapons in, we will confiscate them.
What are they going to do?
I honestly don’t believe China wants to screw with Trump either.
I would assume with Trump, if they begin trying to funnel weapons in, we will confiscate them.
What are they going to do?
I honestly don’t believe China wants to screw with Trump either.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:07 am to SlowFlowPro
I disagree. If he fell in line with neocon/lib ideology we’d be deployed to Iran. He’s been very clear in his words and actions he has no intention of allowing for another 20 year war.
Does Venezuela have the potential to become that? Of course.
But nothing about Trump to this point makes me think he’s going to suddenly adopt Bush era(s) CIA foreign policy models for Venezuela.
Does Venezuela have the potential to become that? Of course.
But nothing about Trump to this point makes me think he’s going to suddenly adopt Bush era(s) CIA foreign policy models for Venezuela.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:07 am to Nosevens
quote:
You are comparing South American Catholic Christians with third world Muslim savages? Bad start..
Not a bad start when that forced distinction has proven to have no bearing in changing the outcomes.
quote:
You say meddling, I would suggest about time someone decides watching our arse, as a Doctrine was created just for that.
Sounds like globalist bullshite, but OK.
quote:
Most likely that’s will be a yes if leadership is voted in and away from socialism
The person we installed was Maduro's VP who hasn't had nice things to say about the US.
quote:
How is hoping movement away from socialism likely to expand globalism
You seem to be adding a new definition of "globalism" to fit the discussion.
quote:
Venezuela’s government was actively involved with China, Russia, I
China and Russia are the 2 countries most opposed to the traditional MAGA version of "Globalism"
quote:
I would think that was more akin in globalization meaning.
It's convenient for your argument but counters the traditional version MAGA uses, rendering the word meaningless.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:07 am to VOR
Were you concerned about what was happening since you were fine with his extraction? It seems if him being gone it gives a chance for something better, certainly a chance for the people there as they were struggling more than ever
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
And this hemispherical/regional power dynamic also implies China has domain over Taiwan, so I don't think we want to go there, either.
It would also imply Russia has domain over Ukraine if you simplify it that much. The difference is that Russia has invaded Ukraine with a complete takeover in mind, which is what China wants to do with Taiwan.
Did we occupy Venezuela with a complete takeover in mind, or will it still stand on its own as a free country?
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:09 am to lurking
quote:
I disagree. If he fell in line with neocon/lib ideology we’d be deployed to Iran.
We didn't invade Iran under the King of neocon ideology.
quote:
He’s been very clear in his words and actions he has no intention of allowing for another 20 year war.
Well THAT gets back to this:
quote:
In isolation, Maduro being removed is great.
From an objective analysis, it's not that clear. Removing Saddam and Ghaddafi were also great...in isolation. Big picture did not reflect the same success.
quote:
There is Pandora's Box potential with any regime change.
What he intends and what ultimately happens may not converge.
quote:
But nothing about Trump to this point makes me think he’s going to suddenly adopt Bush era(s) CIA foreign policy models for Venezuela.
That will require the new regime in Venezuela to bend the knee. The question is what happens if they don't.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:11 am to IvoryBillMatt
quote:NO ONE has.
You’re just mad no one believes your leftist drivel. You act like your post in other threads aren’t visible. You leftist have cried about taking Maduro out since it’s happened.quote:
You are an insufferable liar. Point to ONE post where I have cried about Maduro being taken out....or have even taken a leftist position?
Bourre just has the attention span of a fruit fly and misinterprets anyone who looks forward and asks questions about potential problems in Act Two and Act Three of this little play.
Posted on 1/4/26 at 10:11 am to stout
quote:
It would also imply Russia has domain over Ukraine if you simplify it that much. T
That's a little trickier since Western Russia is considered European and Ukraine is West of Russia. It could argue EU has domain over Ukraine and Western Russia
quote:
Did we occupy Venezuela with a complete takeover in mind, or will it still stand on its own as a free country?
People supporting the move have already declared the leader we put in place to be a "puppet" who will be removed if she doesn't do as she's told.
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