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Message
re: Is anyone here dumb enough to think the Wall costs $12.5M a mile?
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:07 pm to a want
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:07 pm to a want
quote:
No. They voted for a wall/fence combo that didn't intrude on the property rights of US citizens.
This isn't a right/left issue. It's an informed/uninformed issue.
No, they voted for it because they never thought it would ever be created. The dems would never vote for America over their own parties interest.
0
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:08 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
There are a million ways to extract money from Mexico.
One in which they don't extract it right back? There is no free lunch. Do not believe government when they claim something will be free. Crazy schemes to pay for shite are for fools, especially when it is the government trying to sell the idea.
Amazing that a board full of 99% conservatives can't grasp that. The allure of "free" is profound.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:10 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I'd guess at least 20. Seriously, walk a mile and then tell me how much money it would take you to get an architect to build on the terrain and then a construction force to build it. Seriously, walk it tomorrow and say you'd charge 12.5 million dollars when you wouldn't see 1/100th of that. And you're near a Home Depot. Imagine in the bottom of New Mexico when the closest supplier is 300 miles away.
Chances are that the majority of this wall be prefabbed somewhere in the form of concrete panels and installed on site. There will be some structural site work no doubt, but not what you are picturing.
This post was edited on 1/25/17 at 9:11 pm
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:11 pm to OMLandshark
Ok, you are right, we will change it to 27 foot tall and 5 foot wide...that should bring it into budget.
Why don't you plug that into the 'I'm an expert in border wall building in the desert computer'
by reducing the mass of the wall by more than half, we should be ok, but I want to consult the expert.
Why don't you plug that into the 'I'm an expert in border wall building in the desert computer'
by reducing the mass of the wall by more than half, we should be ok, but I want to consult the expert.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:13 pm to FCP
Let me just say this about everyone's "reasonable estimates": unless you have experience with federal bureaucracy, you're underestimating by a hell of a lot.
I have seen the amount of work that goes into a project like this. It will take over a year (maybe several) just to create a cost estimate.
Take it or leave it. Believe me or don't.
I have seen the amount of work that goes into a project like this. It will take over a year (maybe several) just to create a cost estimate.
Take it or leave it. Believe me or don't.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:13 pm to BugAC
quote:
1) architects don't build shite. 2) engineers design civil projects not architects
Both have to walk it all in the middle of fricking no where. That would be a very hefty penny to build more than a thousand miles of wall.
quote:
3) construction companies build projects.
Yeah, where will they house them? How will they get the materials out there? What about their basic necessities. Sure, not an issue in San Diego and El Paso, but everywhere else, yeah.
quote:
4) what idiot would go to Home Depot to construct a major civil project.
Being facetious a little bit, but seriously it will be costly to deliver that material to the middle of no where.
quote:
You don't know a damn thing and are proving it. I was a civil estimator for 8 years and I bid many t-walls in NOLA.
Trump approaches you tomorrow: would you build it for 12.5 million dollars a mile? No overtime, no nothing, he just pays you 12.5 billion to do 1000 miles of wall and that's it. I doubt you would take it.
This post was edited on 1/25/17 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:13 pm to I B Freeman
A mile of the nicest interstate you can build our of concrete cost around 5 million per mile. A wall will not be near as expensive.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:15 pm to a want
You should start a Cost Estimate thread a want and get it sticky.
Would be something I bet.
Would be something I bet.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:15 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
But the reality is that no, they won't.
For once, I am with the Gnome.
This wall is really not a great idea. I want to put a halt on illegal immigration as much as the next guy. However, the only thing a wall will do is force the immigrants to find a more effective way to cross the border (ie the Gulf of Mexico, Puerto Rican stowaway,etc.)
I'm getting downvoted anyway so I don't care. But we are not calling Trump a bad guy, just saying this plan needs a few holes covered.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:18 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:You act as if a US-Mexico trade war would entail an equal risk for both sides. It wouldn't. The concept of a US trade war is flatly horrifying to Mexico. It is anathema to them. They literally cannot go there.
and if we throw a tariff up to recoupe our cost they throw one up in retaliation and a trade war is born
The result?
A majority of Mexicans say Mexico will pay for the wall . . . and they are right.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:19 pm to OMLandshark
quote:You dumb
And let's not think about buying property from private citizens on top of that.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:19 pm to OMLandshark
They need to do the following:
-Have two walls; one on Mexico's end and one on our end
-Limit the number of entry points into each state
-Tightly control each entry point
-Treat a certain distance between the two walls as a de facto "DMZ". (No, not with mines like in Korea, but conceptually like how a DMZ works in the IT field)
-Have two walls; one on Mexico's end and one on our end
-Limit the number of entry points into each state
-Tightly control each entry point
-Treat a certain distance between the two walls as a de facto "DMZ". (No, not with mines like in Korea, but conceptually like how a DMZ works in the IT field)
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:21 pm to Feelthebarn
quote:
No, frick you. The "wall" isn't going to be constructed with anything close to the specs you just stated. So your figures are fake news. frickin DEMwits spin the facts however you want them to sound. fricking leeches.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:31 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
You act as if a US-Mexico trade war would entail an equal risk for both sides. It wouldn't. The concept of a US trade war is flatly horrifying to Mexico. It is anathema to them. They literally cannot go there. The result? A majority of Mexicans say Mexico will pay for the wall . . . and they are right.
They'll pay, but so will we. Both sides lose, and at the end of the day who knows if we'll be net positive or negative with the cost of the wall. Perhaps this drives trade agreements between China and Mexico? No telling, but there are always unforeseen consequences.
People who think that it'll be easy they'll pay one way or other are we get a free wall are delusional. Like I said I find it bizarre having to explain to a board that is so predominantly Republican that they can't trust the government when they claim something will be free, it never is.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:37 pm to OMLandshark
Keep in mind that the Federal government runs a $500B deficit in a year like it's nothing. They spend money like it's nothing. What's another $60B?
So let's say it's $60B to build the wall, which most estimates have it at less than half that. $60B is over $30m a mile.
Let's say they impose a 15% tax on money sent from the states to Mexico. That's at least $25B over 8 years.
Let's say they impose a 5% tariff on imports from Mexico. That's another $100B over 8 years.
Let's say they impose a $50 fee per US traveler to visit Mexico. There's another $10B over 8 years.
So now we're up to $135 BILLION to pay for the wall over 8 years and we haven't even dipped into general funds.
How you like them apples?
So let's say it's $60B to build the wall, which most estimates have it at less than half that. $60B is over $30m a mile.
Let's say they impose a 15% tax on money sent from the states to Mexico. That's at least $25B over 8 years.
Let's say they impose a 5% tariff on imports from Mexico. That's another $100B over 8 years.
Let's say they impose a $50 fee per US traveler to visit Mexico. There's another $10B over 8 years.
So now we're up to $135 BILLION to pay for the wall over 8 years and we haven't even dipped into general funds.
How you like them apples?
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:40 pm to OMLandshark
We ain't paying for the wall, bruh.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:42 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
We ain't paying for the wall, bruh.
Well then ya ain't gettin one then.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 9:53 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:You are not hearing what is being said.
They'll pay, but so will we. Both sides lose
Two guys decide to make a bet. One is a millionaire. One is working class. So when discussion of stakes takes place, the millionaire says "Let's make it an even $10,000." The working class fellow is confident he'd win, but the stakes are so high he cannot risk it.
Like the working class fellow, Mexico simply cannot afford the bet. It may not be fair, but we can afford to take the bet. Mexico can't. There won't be a trade war because Mexico would be disproportionately devastated.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 10:11 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
You know what I bet their response will be: frick No! I doubt they'd do it for under 20 million a mile. You'd have to start at 25 million if not 30 for a competent contractor to even consider it. And let's not think about buying property from private citizens on top of that.
I have a construction co. We'd start negotiating at 30/mi but I could get it done for 22. Less if I use illegals. Not sure how that would go over.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 10:16 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
I have a construction co. We'd start negotiating at 30/mi but I could get it done for 22. Less if I use illegals. Not sure how that would go over.
Thank you. I said 20 as a minimum and you proved my point. Good man.
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