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Started By
Message
re: Interesting breakdown of the Arbery case so far.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:49 pm to LuckyTiger
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:49 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
No, it’s not. It’s a foundation of our law.
I'm sorry, but there are laws and cases that disagree.
quote:
Incorrect.
They chased after the guy because they wrongly suspected him of theft. They pointed guns at him prior to any contact. That is a crime. At that point, Aubry is justified in defending himself, including grabbing the weapon. The defendants then shot him dead. That is murder.
Irrelevant to the fact that he was shot *ONLY* when he reached for a gun. Pretending he was shot because he was suspected of theft ignores reality.
3
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:51 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
That is easy….at the minimum trespassing.
Still no justifiable defense to homicide.
You can’t shoot someone dead because they trespassed.
Well, you can, but you’re more than likely to end up on trial for murder.
I know some people here like to think that you can run out guns blazing if someone you don’t like walks across your lawn but the reality under the law is you can’t do so.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:52 pm to the808bass
quote:Theoretically, yes, but you do have to have immediate knowledge that the suspect violated the elements of that crime.
Is trespassing a crime that people can effect a citizen’s arrest for?
Under Georgia law, you can "trespass" one of three ways: (1) enter the property when you have been told by the owner not to do so, (2) refuse to leave the property after you have been told by the owner to leave or (3) enter the property with the intent to commit a crime.
(1) and (2) are clearly not relevant in this case, so the question is whether McMichael (Sr or Jr) had "immediate knowledge" that Arbery had entered the property with the intent to commit a crime. First, it seems impossible for either of them to have "immediate knowledge" of his intent. Second, they admitted to the officers on-scene and to the 911 operator that they had no idea whether he had committed a crime.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:52 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Irrelevant to the fact that he was shot *ONLY* when he reached for a gun.
A gun was pointed at him before he reached for it.
He was hit with a car before he reached for the gun.
If there’s insufficient reason for the citizen’s arrest, they’re fricked. And even if there’s sufficient reason for the arrest, the use of force in a citizen’s arrest has to be commensurate with the crime. Suspicion of trespassing is a reach for using a gun and hitting with a car.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:54 pm to Azkiger
quote:
I'm sorry, but there are laws and cases that disagree.
I strongly encourage you not to shoot someone dead to protect your stuff or because you think they did something wrong.
I assure you doing so would greatly impact your life and freedom as well as those around you.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:55 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:.
quote:
they made asses of themselves with a gun, embarrassing every other gun owner out there in the process.
I agree, but embarrassing good gun owners isn’t a crime.
Kinda is when there’s a dead guy you’re sure stole something, and the reason you started the process that ended in his death was he stole something, and there was nothing stolen found on his corpse.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:55 pm to Anne_R_Key
quote:
Second, they admitted to the officers on-scene and to the 911 operator that they had no idea whether he had committed a crime.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:55 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
Still no justifiable defense to homicide.
Well the defense against homicide would be self defense while carrying out a legal citizen's arrest.
In order to justify a citizen's arrest the preponderance of evidence must suggest a felony has occurred.
Entering a residency with the intent to steal is a felony in the state of Georgia.
What's more likely, that Arbery entered the property with the intent to steal or not? Considering the McMichaels knew the suspect had been at that site 5 times prior (all at night), that items had been stolen from that property, and that they saw him there a 6th time, what's more likely? Even if its a 51/49 split, so long as its more likely he's a thief there's your felony, there's your citizens arrest, and there's your self defense when he reaches for a gun.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:56 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
The law values life over property.
He used deadly force because he was trying to take his gun to kill him with
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:56 pm to Azkiger
quote:
The confederate flag sticker on the truck will be allowed in court though.
How is this germane to anything?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:57 pm to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:Even if true, it seems to me that this is pretty convincing evidence that he did not have intent to commit a crime. He entered the premises five times, and five times nothing was reported stolen to the police and the property owner (English) specifically stated in two television interviews that Arbery did not take anything from the property.
5 x's ... just out for a jog
To the contrary, the property owner was suspicious of a White couple that entered the property carrying a bag in which they could have secreted stolen items.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:57 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
Second, they admitted to the officers on-scene and to the 911 operator that they had no idea whether he had committed a crime.
Their exact words matter.
"No idea" isn't good for them.
"Don't know for sure" leaves the door open.
That also will be placed alongside the bodycam footage of them speaking to Officer Rash two weeks before shooting Arbery where they said they suspect he's the burglar.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:57 pm to Jack Carter
quote:
He used deadly force because he was trying to take his gun to kill him with
He was pushing the muzzle away from him, not trying to take the gun.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:58 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
quote:
How is this germane to anything?
There's federal hate crime charges in the pipe.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:59 pm to Anne_R_Key
quote:
and the property owner (English) specifically stated in two television interviews that Arbery did not take anything from the property.
Well, what he says in court matters. Things were stolen, but he didn't suspect Arbery.
Of course he's going to say that, he doesn't want to get wrapped up in a murder trail.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 5:59 pm to the808bass
quote:In other words, the amount of force must be commensurate with the alleged offense.
If there’s insufficient reason for the citizen’s arrest, they’re fricked. And even if there’s sufficient reason for the arrest, the use of force in a citizen’s arrest has to be commensurate with the crime. Suspicion of trespassing is a reach for using a gun and hitting with a car.
Deadly force (use of a firearm) seems a bit disproportionate for an alleged misdemeanor trespass.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 6:00 pm to Azkiger
You’re such a dumbfrick.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 6:00 pm to Azkiger
Was anything stolen ever linked back to Arbery or found in among his possessions?
Posted on 11/16/21 at 6:00 pm to the808bass
quote:
Why did they hit him with their vehicle before the video we all saw?
What was he doing then?
I have no idea, but I also have no idea why that's relevant to what I said. They didn't choose to chase and shoot the guy because they suspected him of stealing. Describing it that way is just as dishonest as as pretending the entire encounter starts when Arbery went for the gun.
Posted on 11/16/21 at 6:01 pm to Anne_R_Key
quote:
Even if true, it seems to me that this is pretty convincing evidence that he did not have intent to commit a crime. He entered the premises five times, and five times nothing was reported stolen to the police and the property owner (English) specifically stated in two television interviews that Arbery did not take anything from the property.
But items WERE missing, is what I read. Why was he going back ? Even if HE didn't get caught with stolen goods, he could easily have been scouting the site out, and then letting others know what was there. It's called being an accessory.
We'll see.
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