- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: If tomorrow morning every vehicle in the US were electric would we use less energy??
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:33 pm to I B Freeman
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:33 pm to I B Freeman
I would imagine natural gas prices would skyrocket to fuel the power plants that would be constructed.
And hello, rolling blackouts.
And hello, rolling blackouts.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 9:35 pm
0
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:37 pm to udtiger
I suspect, with no information other than gut instinct, that the manufacturing processes involved would about even it out.
My wife just bought a Honda CRV. The fricking thing gets 39 mpg between highway and local driving....by my own calculation! Not the onboard computer or any EPA calculation but simply dividing the miles by the gallons. It is as comfortable as our sequoia. It ain't a speed demon but it is quick enough to feel safe in. It only weighs 3200 pounds while the Toyota weighs nearly 6000. I don't know they did it but if Honda can build a car that light and that comfortable and that efficient there's no reason others can't. I have driven a hybrid ford and a Saab hybrid and neither got that kind of mileage, they were both very expensive, and they didn't perform near as well as this little Honda.
My wife just bought a Honda CRV. The fricking thing gets 39 mpg between highway and local driving....by my own calculation! Not the onboard computer or any EPA calculation but simply dividing the miles by the gallons. It is as comfortable as our sequoia. It ain't a speed demon but it is quick enough to feel safe in. It only weighs 3200 pounds while the Toyota weighs nearly 6000. I don't know they did it but if Honda can build a car that light and that comfortable and that efficient there's no reason others can't. I have driven a hybrid ford and a Saab hybrid and neither got that kind of mileage, they were both very expensive, and they didn't perform near as well as this little Honda.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:38 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
If tomorrow morning every vehicle in the US were electric would we use less energy??
I don't want to fund this scheme anymore than you want to fund Hollywood or the Saints.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:38 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
So his question was if everyone started using electrical cars, would we use less energy. My response was that if everything was equal (i.e., that everyone magically got electrical cars, batteries, and a capable grid...), yes we would. The difference would be the difference in efficiencies between the internal combustion engine and your electric motor in your car.
You continue to conflate energy with fuel. They are not the same.
Step one. Calculate the energy required to do specific work.
Step two. Find a type and quality of fuel to provide that energy.
The energy required in step one does not change unless the required work changes.
I'm just using the first law.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:39 pm to germandawg
Mazda has developed a new engine that performs like a diesel engine when in cruise and a normal naturally aspirated engine under load. Efficiency improves 20 percent or more.
LINK
LINK
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 9:43 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:40 pm to I B Freeman
What is the efficiency of an electric motor versus a gasoline one?
I'm thinking Joule in versus Joules out, you'll actually find electric to use less energy.
I'm thinking Joule in versus Joules out, you'll actually find electric to use less energy.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:42 pm to GumboPot
quote:
You continue to conflate energy with fuel. They are not the same.
But they are in a sense. Hear me out. The amount of energy it takes to get say the hyperloop to say 60 mph is less than that of the car. Why?
Efficiency. Even though they go the same speed over the same distance with lets say the same weight, one does far more work than the other to achieve the same goal. My point is an internal engine requires more energy to do the same thing than an electrical motor would to do the same thing. Theres less moving parts, less heat loss, etc.
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 9:47 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:43 pm to NYNolaguy1
Ok, after follow up research... your original point still stands.
I was mistaken on some information i read about the tesla electric big rigs.
There is power loss in the charging of electric vehicles, but is still above 90% effeciency. The varriances in effeciency are due to the different methods of charging. Essentially the quickest methods for charging up the batteries results in greatest loss in the charging process.
LINK
I got mixed up from the news article i read the other day about quick charge stations for the tesla big rigs. The power figures they gave were for estimated consumption in kw/hours for loss due to inefficiencies in their quick charge process.
That link I provided mentions a charging method that charges 50-70 miles worth over 20 minutes. But to make tesla's big rigs feasible, they have another method that is apparently significantly quicker. So i wrongly assumed a significant increase in lost energy for that process.
I was mistaken on some information i read about the tesla electric big rigs.
There is power loss in the charging of electric vehicles, but is still above 90% effeciency. The varriances in effeciency are due to the different methods of charging. Essentially the quickest methods for charging up the batteries results in greatest loss in the charging process.
LINK
I got mixed up from the news article i read the other day about quick charge stations for the tesla big rigs. The power figures they gave were for estimated consumption in kw/hours for loss due to inefficiencies in their quick charge process.
That link I provided mentions a charging method that charges 50-70 miles worth over 20 minutes. But to make tesla's big rigs feasible, they have another method that is apparently significantly quicker. So i wrongly assumed a significant increase in lost energy for that process.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:43 pm to germandawg
quote:
I have driven a hybrid ford and a Saab hybrid and neither got that kind of mileage, they were both very expensive, and they didn't perform near as well as this little Honda.
How did the weights compare and how many years ago?
That may answer part of your question, but I agree anything Honda makes is going to be well engineered from screws to paint.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:45 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
What materials do you think would be lacking?
For starters
Cobalt
Nickel
Graphite
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:48 pm to GumboPot
quote:
The energy required in step one does not change unless the required work changes.
An engine takes energy input and converts 30% of that energy into work.
Another engine take energy input and converts 60% of that energy into work.
Engine A uses more energy to accomplish the same work. The same energy goes to the work in A or B, but A puts out a lot more heat getting it there.
You obviously know this and are being purposefully obtuse as the idea of efficiency is clearly at the heart of the OP's question.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:53 pm to Duke
quote:
You obviously know this and are being purposefully obtuse
No, I'm pretty sure he's just obtuse.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:53 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
But they are in a sense. Hear me out. The amount of energy it takes to get say the hyperloop to say 60 mph is less than that of the car. Why?
Efficiency. Even though they go the same speed over the same distance with lets say the same weight, one does far more work than the other to achieve the same goal. My point is an internal engine requires more energy to do the same thing than an electrical motor would to do the same thing. Theres less moving parts, less heat loss, etc.
I agree with all this but the energy required in both instances is exactly the same if the sum of all forces times the distance in both scenarios are the same.
Efficiency as you mention in the type of fuel used is the difference maker.
Howerver, again the OP asked for energy not efficiency.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:54 pm to larry289
quote:You are hardly "off the grid" with a propane contract. Especially if that is just for heat and cooling. I am guessing you still get electrical, telephone service, and cable / dish?
Well I just don't know because at my age, not going to go that route.
That said, there is a gentleman (PHD Ed) and his wife in these parts that claim to have spent $23K for solar panels on the roof of their home. Absolutely gorgeous location in the hills and there are these solar panels that are less than cool looking. He claims to be kicking back to the electric company more than he is using for apx. 20% of the time. He goes on to discuss how he and his wife sweat a little during the hot summers and are a little chilled in the winter. But hey, they are comfortable so goes the story. Claims the payback on the panels will be 14 years, but I haven't put a calculator to his claims so don't know.
Missing from the dissertation is maintenance, repair, replacement, etc. costs and the one I would be most concerned with...what happens when the roof need new shingles? You know all those delicate little panels need to be removed by those illegal immigrants, then reinstalled...and OH, surely there's going to be some wires that come into play.
I'll stick with propane and living off the grid, thank you.
But besides that, I have no idea what contract your friend got into with the electric company. Sounds like he is in one if he is "kicking back".
Solar is probably not ready to fulfill your heating and cooling needs, but it could definitely supplement the rest of your electric usage. You could probably buy about 10 panels installed for your home for about $2K and compare energy bills with your PhD friend.
Since the thread was discussing power for your car, solar would just be one factor in replacing gas for an ICE.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:55 pm to Ross
quote:
What is the efficiency of an electric motor versus a gasoline one?
Most electric moters are 95%.
Combustion engines vary widely.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:57 pm to I B Freeman
I wouldn't because I would have to put some booster shite on mine.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 9:59 pm to mmcgrath
One thing to consider if you are looking at solar panels for your house---the subsidies will not be there for ever and the panels do not last for ever. Would you have saved any money if 15 years from now you had to pay full price for replacement panels??
Posted on 9/12/17 at 10:00 pm to texag7
These new ultracapcity supercapacitors look to be the answer, if the properties scale up as expected. No exotic metals, the electrolyte is an ionically active macromolecule polymer similar to what's in soft contacts. Energy densities in these things could possibly be much higher than lithium batteries, they last through many times more charging cycles, they will charge to full capacity in the same time it takes to pump a tank of gas
LINK
LINK
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 10:01 pm
Posted on 9/12/17 at 10:02 pm to GumboPot
quote:
I agree with all this but the energy required in both instances is exactly the same if the sum of all forces times the distance in both scenarios are the same.
See, now youre conflating energy with work. W=FxD. Just because both are doing the same amount of work doesnt mean they are spending the same energy to do so.
Posted on 9/12/17 at 10:07 pm to GumboPot
Yeah they vary widely, below 95%.
The Otto cycle is the idealized spark plug piston-cylinder device, and the efficiency is realistically bounded pretty far below 95% for that cycle with air and gasoline mixtures IIRC
The Otto cycle is the idealized spark plug piston-cylinder device, and the efficiency is realistically bounded pretty far below 95% for that cycle with air and gasoline mixtures IIRC
This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 10:12 pm
Page 3 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News