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Started By
Message
re: If the Tariffs are meant to return manufacturing what’s the point of negotiating?
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:07 am to RaoulDuke504
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:07 am to RaoulDuke504
quote:
I support the tariffs and it’s desperately needed. America has become a museum of what made us great and we now can’t sustain ourselves.
However the mixed messages are confusing. Countries like Israel and Vietnam offered to remove all tariffs. If we reciprocated that especially to Vietnam this would do more damage to manufacturing than before.
So is the move to push for free trade or to return manufacturing ?
It's both.
2
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:07 am to RaoulDuke504
quote:
If the Tariffs are meant to return manufacturing
That's one option. It changes given the discussion for people supporting the tariffs.
quote:
However the mixed messages are confusing. Countries like Israel and Vietnam offered to remove all tariffs. If we reciprocated that especially to Vietnam this would do more damage to manufacturing than before.
You are correct.
The "bringing jobs back" goal only works with perpetual high tariffs that increase the cost of goods in America.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:07 am to RaoulDuke504
The flip side to your argument is we spent 37 trillion to spur factory growth around the world.
Are we ever at any point to supposed to stop financing factory growth and going further into debt?
I guess one could argue that the goal was to create affluence in other parts of the world which would benefit everyone.
At some point we have to stop printing more debt, right? It makes sense to do it sooner than later. If the world can't survive without our markets then the experiment was an abject failure.
Trump is rightly saying that we should now compete fairly with the our overseas partners. I think he truly believes this because of his support of the crypto markets.
Competition is better for everyone but the weak and weak minded. I put my bet on American ingenuity and the American worker.
Are we ever at any point to supposed to stop financing factory growth and going further into debt?
I guess one could argue that the goal was to create affluence in other parts of the world which would benefit everyone.
At some point we have to stop printing more debt, right? It makes sense to do it sooner than later. If the world can't survive without our markets then the experiment was an abject failure.
Trump is rightly saying that we should now compete fairly with the our overseas partners. I think he truly believes this because of his support of the crypto markets.
Competition is better for everyone but the weak and weak minded. I put my bet on American ingenuity and the American worker.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:08 am to RaoulDuke504
Still gotta be able to sell it
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:08 am to BCreed1
quote:
It's both.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:09 am to geoag58
quote:
The flip side to your argument is we spent 37 trillion to spur factory growth around the world.
Holy fricking shite.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:09 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Both nations have increased their citizens quality of life over the past 30 years, objectively. Your like a Democrat. Focused on the ones who got left behind. Thats on them.
So why is it that we now have 2 generations millennials and Gen Z who will now be worse off than their parents? While China has uplifted billions out of poverty. I feel like something big happened with trade in the 90s and 00s that caused this.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:11 am to RaoulDuke504
quote:
So why is it that we now have 2 generations millennials and Gen Z who will now be worse off than their parents?
Some will, some wont.
If these idiots hadnt adapted terrible habits like being addicted to WFH and "quiet quitting" they might be two steps ahead of where they are.
You need cheaper pricing, not higher wages. We are in an inflationary loop that is about to get worse without a recession.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:12 am to RaoulDuke504
quote:
So why is it that we now have 2 generations millennials and Gen Z who will now be worse off than their parents?
Most of this is the 2009 Financial crash and the government intervention from 2009-2020 used to protect the parents.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Holy fricking shite.
Print money, increase our debt forever?
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:16 am to CollegeFBRules
quote:
Taxes and costs imposed on Americans and people across the globe are about to begin an ascent like few of us have seen in our lifetimes, and multitudes are applauding it.
Wouldn’t the inverse happen if both countries negotiate to 0% tariff? Which Trump is trying to achieve
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:17 am to cajuntiger1010
quote:
Which Trump is trying to achieve
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:18 am to geoag58
quote:
Print money, increase our debt forever?
Has very little to do with the trade deficit.
But y'all like to conflate the 2 routinely.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:18 am to BCreed1
quote:
It's both.
Called it.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:19 am to Flats
I almost made that thread having everyone take their spot, but if they'll just be dishonest and say both, what's the point?
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:19 am to RaoulDuke504
True free trade will open up our manufacturing because the play field will be closer toe even.
We have really failed at teaching history and economics in this country in favor of white people bad.
Tariffs are a tool used to punish, raise money, bring people to the negotiation table or all three.
I Tariff your goods to sell more of my products domestically and force you to invest in my country by building manufacturing plants that hire my workers.
I remove the tariff when you build your plant and now your plant competes with my domestic plant under the same building, employment, financing and legal rules in my country.
People are looking at tariffs like they do slavery. people think slavery somehow never existed before the USA, similarly they think we are the only country or the first country that has applied tariffs when in reality tariffs have exist for hundreds of years the entire world has been slapping us with tariffs for decades - which is one of the reasons our manufacturing has all but disappeared.
We have really failed at teaching history and economics in this country in favor of white people bad.
Tariffs are a tool used to punish, raise money, bring people to the negotiation table or all three.
I Tariff your goods to sell more of my products domestically and force you to invest in my country by building manufacturing plants that hire my workers.
I remove the tariff when you build your plant and now your plant competes with my domestic plant under the same building, employment, financing and legal rules in my country.
People are looking at tariffs like they do slavery. people think slavery somehow never existed before the USA, similarly they think we are the only country or the first country that has applied tariffs when in reality tariffs have exist for hundreds of years the entire world has been slapping us with tariffs for decades - which is one of the reasons our manufacturing has all but disappeared.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:28 am to SlowFlowPro
Tell us your plan, because the plan we have been on, you know the one that increases our debt at an ever increasing rate is not sustainable.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:35 am to RaoulDuke504
If the goal was really to induce significant growth in manufacturing - which is really bullshite, as the U.S. still has more manufacturing by far than anyone else in the world sans China and is still among the very top in per capita output, etc. - then you could use various forms of subsidies rather than dumb frick ideas like broadline global tariffs that screw up shite for everyone.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:37 am to GumboPot
quote:
Some countries will move manufacturing to the U.S.
Some countries will drop their tariffs on U.S. goods entering their country so we will drop tariffs on their goods entering our country.
And if you are for free trade you have to interpret the first scenario as a loss, and if you are for American manufacturing you have to interpret the second scenario as a loss.
They can't both be wins.
Posted on 4/4/25 at 10:38 am to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
If the goal was really to induce significant growth in manufacturing - which is really bullshite, as the U.S. still has more manufacturing by far than anyone else in the world sans China and is still among the very top in per capita output, etc. - then you could use various forms of subsidies rather than dumb frick ideas like broadline global tariffs that screw up shite for everyone.
That is correct.
It's the same argument I make about the products necessary for national security. There are better ways than tariffs to make sure we make those things ourselves.
This post was edited on 4/4/25 at 10:39 am
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