- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: I wonder if the upside down cross gave her away?
Posted on 10/6/25 at 12:48 pm to StrongOffer
Posted on 10/6/25 at 12:48 pm to StrongOffer
quote:
Did you mean to say that Paul didn’t think Jesus was ever on earth? You know that’s incorrect, right?
Yes that’s what I meant. Paul believed Jesus was given a body of flesh by his Father, then Jesus (who wasn’t even named Jesus yet) descended into the lowest heaven below the firmament and was killed in the sky by the gods who ruled over the earth. His father then raised him from the dead, restored his spiritual body, highly exalted him, and then gave him the name “Jesus”.
Paul believed Jesus would one day come to earth as a future event and it would be in the lifetime of Paul and his disciples and apostles for the purpose of resurrecting the dead and then judging everyone and reigning as king on Earth - on a newly created Earth because Jesus would destroy the current Earth.
Paul wasn’t aware of any of the stories of Jesus on earth - our 4 canonical gospels plus over 40 non-canonical - because they hadn’t yet been written when Paul was alive. Paul’s beliefs very much paralleled a gospel of the celestial Jesus found in Egypt called “The Ascension of Isaiah”. In that gospel, Jesus is killed in heaven and would one day come to Earth.
I’m happy to have a discussion with you. I’m sure you disagree with everything I’ve written, but I think I’m prepared to answer any questions or thoughts you might have. Hit me with any Bible verse you want or any peer reviewed journals or white papers or book excerpts.
I’ll give you a slight taste of my evidence, so as not to make this post too long.
quote:
6Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Let’s check where the rulers of this age reside…
quote:
12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
1
Posted on 10/6/25 at 1:38 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
John is clear that many Antichrists have come…
I knew it! Auburn plays Georgia this weekend and I believe Kirby Smart may be on of those Antichrists, I used to think Saban was the only one,…..but now you have settled this matter for us. Thanks!
Posted on 10/6/25 at 4:36 pm to cajunangelle
Bull Dyke Demon.
Posted on 10/6/25 at 4:40 pm to PastorJ
quote:
People want the illusion of following Christ without submitting to Christ.
Which Christ are we talking about here?
Posted on 10/6/25 at 4:41 pm to BTROleMisser
quote:
Bull Dyke Demon.
Posted on 10/6/25 at 4:42 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Paul believed Jesus was given a body of flesh by his Father, then Jesus (who wasn’t even named Jesus yet) descended into the lowest heaven below the firmament and was killed in the sky by the gods who ruled over the earth.
You are twisted. We went through this months ago, and you are just as wrong now as you were then.
Posted on 10/6/25 at 6:25 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You are twisted. We went through this months ago, and you are just as wrong now as you were then.
Let’s play a game. See if you can answer these simple questions straight from the Bible.
1. Who did Paul say killed the Lord in 1 Cor 2?
2. Were the ones responsible for killing the Lord made of flesh and blood? (Hint: Eph 6:12)
3. Where did the ones responsible for killing the Lord reside? (Hint: Eph 6:12)
Hopefully this doesn’t give you an aneurysm because I do hope to continue our discussions in the future.
Posted on 10/6/25 at 7:27 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:I’ve been over this with you before.
Let’s play a game. See if you can answer these simple questions straight from the Bible.
1. Who did Paul say killed the Lord in 1 Cor 2?
2. Were the ones responsible for killing the Lord made of flesh and blood? (Hint: Eph 6:12)
3. Where did the ones responsible for killing the Lord reside? (Hint: Eph 6:12)
Paul uses the same word (rulers) for earthly magistrates, such as in Romans 13, where he speaks of Christian submission to the government.
Paul supported the historical teaching of the Church as confirmed by the other writers that Jesus was born in the likeness of man (the incarnation) to a woman (Mary) and that He was born under the Mosaic law. This is found in Galatians 4.
In Philippians 2, Paul says that this happened prior to His crucifixion on the cross. His obedience to the law brought Him to an unjust death on the cross.
In Romans 1, Paul speaks of Jesus’ earthly lineage, being descended from David (as Jews were descended from Abraham in Rom 4). Paul repeats that Jesus is of the same race as a Jew “according to the flesh” in Romans 9.
Paul refers to the “brothers of the Lord” having wives in 1 Corinthians 9, which corresponds to the gospels saying Jesus had earthly brothers.
Paul also refers to the institution of the Lord’s Supper in 1 Corinthians 11, where he recounts Jesus’ words and actions on earth the night prior to the crucifixion. This was also referenced in Luke 22.
He also referred to Jesus death, burial, and resurrection as being on-earth events (or else it wouldn’t make sense) in 1 Corinthians 15, where Jesus’ resurrection was proof of our own, and he uses eye-witnesses to prove it. Those eye-witnesses wouldn’t be witnesses if those events happened in Heaven.
So whatever Paul is speaking of in Ephesians 6 and 1 Corinthians 2 is not some view where Jesus was incarnate in Heaven only and crucified by Roman execution in Heaven by demons.
No, 1 Corinthians 2 speaks to Jesus being killed by earthly rulers (Pilate, Herod, and Ciaphas) being moved to purpose by demonic powers, like Judas was moved to betrayal by Satan. And Ephesians 6 speaks to the spiritual warfare that Christians face on earth in this life.
That doesn’t even speak to Luke—the writer of the gospel and of Acts—being a companion and disciple of Paul’s, who wrote of Jesus’ earthly ministry as a biographer of sorts, recounting what he received from other eye-witnesses. He certainly didn’t think Jesus was killed in Heaven by demons or other spiritual beings. It also doesn’t speak of Clement or Ignatius, who were in Rome not long after Paul, and who wrote of the historical reality of Jesus from the gospels, not some gnostic fable.
You are trying to shoehorn some sort of gnostic conspiracy theory into the text where it doesn’t fit.
This post was edited on 10/6/25 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 10/6/25 at 9:24 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I’ve been over this with you before. Paul uses the same word (rulers) for earthly magistrates, such as in Romans 13, where he speaks of Christian submission to the government.
You are so special. You believe your English Bible instead of checking the Greek. Here’s the real translation of Romans 13:1…
quote:
Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been ordered by God.
This parallels Deuteronomy 32:8-9 which I know you hate in which El (God) gives authority to his many sons over his people groups and lands.
Another big idea of the ancient Semitic mythology you can’t grasp is that earthly kings were the incarnation or embodiment of the heavenly “sons of God” or “Rulers”. Egypt too. The Pharoah of Egypt was viewed as a god. The kind of Judah - the messiah - such as David and Solomon were the incarnation of Yahweh. The king of Syria was the incarnation of Baal Hadad. Nebuchadnezzar was the son of… Nebu (another god the ancient Israelite polytheists also worshipped pre exile).
Did Paul in 1 Cor 2 mean that multiple earthly kings got together and killed Jesus? There were no kings, or even princes at the time of Jesus in Palestine. The emperor was in Rome. Clearly, archons were heavenly authorities, and you piss on Ephesians 6:12.
quote:
Paul supported the historical teaching of the Church as confirmed by the other writers that Jesus was born in the likeness of man (the incarnation)
You know this is a lie and you know it doesn’t say “born” which is a different Greek word. It says “made” or “manufactured”.
quote:
to a woman (Mary)
Again you know you lie and you know it says “made of woman” which was a Hebrew idiom for “a human”.
quote:
In Philippians 2, Paul says that this happened prior to His crucifixion on the cross. His obedience to the law brought Him to an unjust death in the cross.
It’s so funny you’d choose that book and chapter - the very chapter which clearly explains Jesus isn’t equal to the father and is subservient to the father and didn’t earn his name “Jesus” until after his death. Do you even read the Bible?
quote:
In Romans 1, Paul speaks of Jesus’ earthly lineage, being descended from David
Who came into being of the sperm of David according to the flesh. Yes I know, God made a body of flesh for “his beloved” archangel to wear so he could come into the being of the mortals below the firmament. It’s what I’ve been trying to tell you. God makes spiritual bodies and he makes fleshly bodies and you’d know more about that if you read 1 Enoch.
quote:
Paul refers to the “brothers of the Lord” having wives in 1 Corinthians 9, which corresponds to the gospels saying Jesus had earthly brothers.
All baptized Christians are brothers of the Lord and also are sons of God. Have you like never opened the New Testament?
quote:
Paul also refers to the institution of the Lord’s Supper in 1 Corinthians 11
Oddly, he doesn’t describe any human actually being there with him. Oh well that’s not odd because there aren’t any humans in the skies or above the firmament.
quote:
He also referred to Jesus death, burial, and resurrection as being on-earth events (or else it wouldn’t make sense) in 1 Corinthians 15, where Jesus’ resurrection was proof of our own, and he uses eye-witnesses to prove it
Wouldn’t make any sense to a small minded mental midget… It would be nice if you would admit that there is nothing in there about it being on earth, rather than misleading others. And you are also outright lying about what 1 Cor 15 says about the eyewitnesses. Paul didn’t claim them to be witnesses of the resurrection but rather to post-resurrection appearances only.
This is what Paul writes:
quote:
16That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. 18In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” 19He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah’s womb. 20No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” 23But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Two things to unpack - firstly Paul distinguishes the Jews under the mosaic law from the Jews under the faith of Abraham who, like him, rejected the law (that was brought to Jerusalem by the returning Babylonian exiles under Persian authority that the “Canaanites” - the Jews that didn’t get exiles - rejected as apostate). The second is that here Paul says just as Abraham had blind faith that the Lord would give him a son, an heir, in his and Sarah’s old age, so too must Christians blindly believe that Jesus dies and was resurrected. Had that been a real event on earth, Paul could have told his congregations to go to Jerusalem and ask all the eyewitnesses to Jesus’ existence and his death under Pontius Pilate. But Paul never mentions Pontius Pilate or Roman soldiers.
quote:
So whatever Paul is speaking of in Ephesians 6 and 1 Corinthians 2 is not some view where Jesus was incarnate in Heaven only and crucified by Roman execution in Heaven by demons.
It’s exactly that, and the gospel found in Egypt “the ascension of Isaiah” preserved this theology. Get off your lazy arse and read and research.
quote:
No, 1 Corinthians 2 speaks to Jesus being killed by earthly rulers (Pilate, Herod, and Ciaphas)
None of those had been granted authority by God. None of these were kings or emperors like Caesar or like the Persian Messiah Cyrus the great.
quote:
That doesn’t even speak to Luke—the writer of the gospel and of Acts—being a companion and disciple of Paul’s
100% fiction / mythology
quote:
Clement
Know how I know you’re g… I mean, that you’ve never read the epistle of Clement? Everything “Jesus” says in that letter is a quote of something Yahweh says in the Old Testament from the Septuagint version.
I do love how he quotes Deuteronomy 32:8-9 though - your most hated biblical verses!
quote:
You are trying to shoehorn some sort of gnostic conspiracy theory into the text where it doesn’t fit.
Except that the Egyptian Gnostics and Valentinians loved Paul and claimed Paul as their hero and wrote many Gnostic scriptures of the archons in heaven pulling the strings of the puppets (earthly kings). One of my favorites is “the Hypostasis of the Archons” aka “the Reality of the Rulers”. You should get yourself a copy and check it out!
Posted on 10/6/25 at 9:25 pm to theballguy
quote:
Which Christ are we talking about here?
For reference see the New Testament.
Posted on 10/6/25 at 10:06 pm to FooManChoo
Let me create a plausible discussion between the followers of Pauline Christianity and the followers of later canonical gospel Christianity.
Pauline Christian:
Gospel Christian 1:
Pauline Christian:
Gospel Christian 2:
Pauline Christian:
I hope you liked it.
Pauline Christian:
quote:
You do realize Kyrios was given a body of flesh made from the sperm of David by his father, ton Theon. Kyrios didn’t attempt to become equal to ton Theon like some of the other angels who were cast out of heaven, and so he lowered himself, descended into the lowest heaven below the firmament where the Archons of this Aeon didn’t know who he was, because of his disguise. They killed him by crucifying him on a tree. Ho Theos then resurrected him and highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name “Iesous”, and ho Theos has given him authority over all the earth, so that every tongue shall confess Iesous is Kyrios to the glory of ton Theon the Father. All this happened in the heavens, and your parables of Jesus on earth are simply cleverly devised myths meant to be a tool to convert gentiles who aren’t familiar with Jewish theology.
Gospel Christian 1:
quote:
For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
Pauline Christian:
quote:
Yeah all that was made up and you’ve been duped. You’re a baby in Christ so all they have you was milk. The reality is Jesus died and was resurrected in heaven. Your apostle will give you some meat when you are ready but you aren’t yet. Oh, and your gospel author didn’t quite Psalm 2 correctly. It’s “You are my son, this day I have begotten you.”
Gospel Christian 2:
quote:
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
Pauline Christian:
quote:
You’ve been duped too. Jesus hasn’t come yet, but when he does, the dead will rise, and they and all of us in our new perfect pneumatic bodies will float up to heaven to meet him, and then escort him back down to earth where he will establish his new kingdom.
I hope you liked it.
Posted on 10/6/25 at 10:08 pm to FlyDownTheField83
quote:
I knew it! Auburn plays Georgia this weekend and I believe Kirby Smart may be on of those Antichrists, I used to think Saban was the only one,…..but now you have settled this matter for us. Thanks!
Take Saban. Change one letter. Voila - Satan! Now you know the truth. You must guard this secret.
Posted on 10/6/25 at 10:18 pm to RobertFootball
She sounds like a complete nut job
Posted on 10/6/25 at 10:22 pm to Squirrelmeister
Has Squirrelmeister learned to read texts? Nope
Posted on 10/6/25 at 10:30 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
Has Squirrelmeister learned to read texts? Nope
Pathetic
Posted on 10/6/25 at 10:35 pm to Squirrelmeister
Your response is predictable because you’ve said it before. You ignore the plain reading of the text, the plain reading of the rest of Scripture which Paul agrees with, the accepted writings of the gospels, and even the historical writings of others early on church history which support the orthodox Christian view in favor of your cherry-picked gnostic preference, because it fits your narrative better.
Your position is ahistorical and requires the entire Bible to be ignored save for a couple of verses taken out of context. I can’t help but laugh when I see you reject a book of the Bible outright because it doesn’t agree with your sad interpretation. I suppose that is what you are forced to do because your conspiracy theories require people to ignore the bigger picture.
I’m surprised you haven’t pulled any muscles with how you have to contort to reject the truth. It’s such a shame. You are absolutely lost; a fool who thinks he is smarter than the God he rejects.
Your position is ahistorical and requires the entire Bible to be ignored save for a couple of verses taken out of context. I can’t help but laugh when I see you reject a book of the Bible outright because it doesn’t agree with your sad interpretation. I suppose that is what you are forced to do because your conspiracy theories require people to ignore the bigger picture.
I’m surprised you haven’t pulled any muscles with how you have to contort to reject the truth. It’s such a shame. You are absolutely lost; a fool who thinks he is smarter than the God he rejects.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 6:47 am to FooManChoo
quote:
You ignore the plain reading of the text
I just reject the dogma you try to impose upon the text plus the biases of the translators. Where Paul writes you must submit to the “government authorities” you lap it up like an idiot dog, while I access the original Greek and read scholarly works to understand the literal wording is “higher authority” plus its original context. I think the original context is important while you try to impose the orthodox Nicene Christianity onto the scriptures.
quote:
the plain reading of the rest of Scripture which Paul agrees with
Paul was the earliest NT writer most likely, though any of 1 Peter, Revelation, Hebrews, James, and Jude could have been written before Paul.
At any rate, 2 Thessalonians, Colossians, Ephesians, the Pastoral epistles, 2 Peter, and the 4 gospels are all written after Paul’s death. So I’m not sure how you know that Paul agreed with “the rest of the scriptures “. I can give you one easy and major example though on something which he would have disagreed.
Paul believed Christians were justified and saved by their faith in the Lord, and not works of the Law. “Matthew”, likely responding to the sect of Paul, wrote that one must be more righteous than the Pharisees and keep every silly and iota of the Law to be saved. He directly contradicted Paul, so I’m pretty sure Paul would have had a problem with it.
You won’t even understand what I just wrote and you’ll probably not reply with a coherent response but you’ll say I hate God and I might repent. It’s sad.
quote:
I can’t help but laugh when I see you reject a book of the Bible outright because it doesn’t agree with your sad interpretation. I suppose that is what you are forced to do because your conspiracy theories require people to ignore the bigger picture.
There you go with your projection. You’re the one with the dogma, not me. You don’t even care what the Biblical authors wrote. You’ve been indoctrinated in your worldview and into biblical univocality and inerrancy so you simply can’t understand the original text and ideas of each biblical author.
quote:
You are absolutely lost; a fool who thinks he is smarter than the God he rejects.
I’d have put some kind of fence or force field around the tree of life and the tree of knowledge in Eden. I’d have not given the sons of God working reproductive systems so as to avoid a race of angel/human hybrids and avoid the need to flood the earth. If I was omnipotent, there’d have been no need to flood the earth - snap my fingers and all the evil on earth disappears without the need to kill innocent people and animals. Rather than commanding mass genocide of other peoples inhabiting some land, I would have showed myself to them and converted them and had them live in harmony with my people. But if they refused, I would have been able to defeat the iron chariots. And I would have just forgiven people of their sins rather than having to kill my innocent son as a substitutionary sacrifice to myself of myself. So yeah, I think I’m probably a billion times smarter than the god of your religion.
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:15 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Squirrelmeister
Time you put your toy gods back in the box. The scholar bus is coming. Do they teach chemistry?
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:20 am to RobertFootball
quote:If no one showed up, I guess it would die. But, that's not happening and it's quite disturbing that people would actually ascribe to the heretic's teachings.
How did these leftists take over churches?
Posted on 10/7/25 at 7:36 am to AlwysATgr
quote:
Time you put your toy gods back in the box. The scholar bus is coming. Do they teach chemistry?
Try making coherent logical arguments with supporting evidence.
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News