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Started By
Message
re: How would the total elimination of federal income taxes change your life ?
Posted on 1/20/25 at 10:59 pm to jclem11
Posted on 1/20/25 at 10:59 pm to jclem11
quote:
A progressive tax regime
Is inherently, unfair, by definition.
Do I need to post the definition of the word "fair?"
Like the guy from The Princess Bride, "You keep using that word, but I'm not sure you know what it means."
Oh, heck, let's go ahead and do it. The primary definition:
quote:
fair1
/fer/
adjective
1.
impartial and just, without favoritism or discrimination.
What you want is favoritism to the poor, which you then want to insist is "fair."
quote:
You sure about that?
Quite. We spend far too much money in America which requires far too much tax revenue. I am not conflicted, confused, or ambivalent about that in the least.
quote:
the retired poor.
Why are they retired if they are poor?
If I got to retirement age and still needed money, I would keep working.
quote:
if you tax the frick out of poor people you will have to enact programs to subsidize them.
Why?
They are already being subsidized. They already get food and housing allowances. Health insurance. Cash. Cell phones.
According to the Census Bureau from 2011, the average poor household, as defined by the government, had a car, air conditioning, two televisions sets, cable or satellite (again, it was 2011), a DVD player and a VCR. 54% of poor households had a game system (Xbox, Playstation, etc.) and 23% were paying for Tiivo.
Also according to the report, the average poor person in America was not hungry and could get medical care when necessary (and again, this was before Obamacare went into full implementation).
Finally, according to the government report, the living space reported for the average poor American household was greater than the average living space for non-poor households in Europe.
I'm not saying that every poor person in America lives like that, but you have to be pretty much homeless and living off the government grid before you do significantly worse. And yes, there are people like that, but a consumption tax isn't going to move the needle for them b/c the reason that they are living like that overwhelmingly has nothing to do with taxes or government benefits.
I don't accept the premise that you would have to do anything more than is already being done. The vast majority of poor households seem to have disposable income to buy non-essential items with.
quote:
so you have not accomplished anything.
But you have. Though I do not accept it as a premise, even if, purely for the sake of argument, I consider a hypothetical scenario in which it is a wash money-wise, you still have gained something. Really it's more accurate to say that unscrupulous politicians have lost something.
They have lost at least a big part of the ability to play American citizens against each other via a class warfare narrative relative to taxes.
They would pay politically much more dearly for raising taxes than they do now, since they would be raising taxes on everyone.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 11:07 pm to wackatimesthree
And if the companies in the states start making those goods IN THE USA.... no Tariff penalty.
Posted on 1/20/25 at 11:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Poor people don't have/make enough to pay for our current spending levels
Then adjust your “ways”
And welfare needs a overhaul too
Posted on 1/20/25 at 11:22 pm to Kjnstkmn
It’s the best play. We’d all have way more to put in the economy. I’d go get a Bugatti.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 12:00 am to omegaman66
Posted on 1/21/25 at 12:15 am to Kjnstkmn
Id probably move my residence back to the Mainland
I've saved a ton in not paying federal taxes this year.
I've saved a ton in not paying federal taxes this year.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 12:34 am to jclem11
quote:
For the 97th time consumption taxes are regressive and disproportionately harm the poor.
Is it possible to have a lower tax on items like food and homesteads while having higher taxes on luxury goods? Or does everything have to be taxed the same rate?
You're choosing a worst case scenario and pretending that's the only way it can be.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 4:36 am to Kjnstkmn
I’d be out of a job, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 5:23 am to jclem11
quote:
Well the price of everything you will buy will go up 20 to 30 percent. I'm not sure you will like no income tax as you think.
You are being taxed twice on everything you buy. Sales taxes also increase.
Why are people wanting to be taxed more?
Oh so your argument is only some people should be taxed. Well frick that. Not everyone has income.
Pay your fair share.
This post was edited on 1/21/25 at 5:26 am
Posted on 1/21/25 at 5:27 am to jclem11
quote:
all Turmp does is eanct a shite load of EOs, which is not uncommon in modern politics.
Actually the modern presidents have signed less.
You are fricking ignorant.
Joe Biden signed a lot out of the gate, but overall he didn’t sign that many.
This post was edited on 1/21/25 at 5:37 am
Posted on 1/21/25 at 5:29 am to jclem11
quote:
Well the price of everything you will buy will go up 20 to 30 percent.
no it won't. And it won't affect YOU anyway, as you're too poor to pay any income tax, parasite..
But for the producers of the nation, it will mean more income.
Duh.
Dumbass.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 6:09 am to Kjnstkmn
I am fan of no income tax but it would hard to make it work smoothly. To think everyone with ROTH IRAs would have been screwed because they already payed tax on their retirement . It would make the middle class that spent all their money and file bankrupt would be paying in for their own bankruptcy and not the people that save their money .
Posted on 1/21/25 at 2:06 pm to tjv305
Posted on 1/21/25 at 2:22 pm to Kjnstkmn
Taxes can't totally be eliminated and replaced with tariffs in this country because we don't produce anything anymore.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 2:31 pm to Kjnstkmn
The government is going to get their pound of flesh whether it's through an income tax, property tax, or a consumption tax. There's no way that they go to a consumption tax. Older people (50+) generally have higher incomes and consume less, which would cut into revenues pretty badly.
As for me, I currently spend more on Federal income taxes than housing, so it would be huge provided that it wasn't replaced with something more onerous.
As for me, I currently spend more on Federal income taxes than housing, so it would be huge provided that it wasn't replaced with something more onerous.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 2:37 pm to jclem11
quote:
Well the price of everything you will buy will go up 20 to 30 percent. I'm not sure you will like no income tax as you think.
I’m ok with this because everyone will have to pay the same. Even the folks on gubment assistance. They will have to go back to buying the essentials and not crawfish and shite.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 2:41 pm to jclem11
We’ve shown that we can hedge the regressive nature via a tax credit advance. Wasn’t possible a while back, but the post-COVID advance on child tax credit means that we have the ability to take into account prior year income level and give out an advance credit to reduce regressive nature on lower incomes.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 2:45 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
Is it possible to have a lower tax on items like food and homesteads while having higher taxes on luxury goods? Or does everything have to be taxed the same rate?
Absolutely possible. For example, we have a constitutional exemption of prescription drugs for prescription drugs. We also have differing tax rates at state/local level for some goods.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 2:58 pm to jclem11
quote:
Well the price of everything you will buy will go up 20 to 30 percent.
This is mathematically impossible when you consider the fact that approx. 23% of the cost of any given retail product is embedded corporate income taxes that are passed down along the distribution chain and ultimately paid by the consumer at the Point of Sale.
When income taxes go away, ALL income taxes go away, including those corporate income taxes that are paid by end users at retail.
Here's a link to a thread response where I go more in depth, for those interested.
Posted on 1/21/25 at 3:01 pm to jclem11
quote:
For the 97th time consumption taxes are regressive and disproportionately harm the poor.
Chanting something like a fricked-up mantra doesn't make it so.
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