re: How can you possibly deny that healthcare is a human right?

Because real human rights can't be dependent on someone else's decision to pursue a particular profession. If there were no doctors, nurses, PTs, etc. how would you guarantee healthcare?

You could argue that comprehensive healthcare is beneficial to the well being of society, and should be provided (I don't). As education often is. But that does not mean it's a human right.

Human rights are about affirming the ability of a person to live a life of their choosing, which does not prevent another from doing the same. However, they are not about supporting a person to achieve that life.

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if its true that judges cant force lawyers to represent people (for pay obviously) in places where PDs are not available, on the basis of the 6th amendment, then I concede the point and Ill go away.

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Before you go away, can you answer the question I asked you twice?

Are you claiming that people in the US are denied healthcare?

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Im just pointing out a logical inconsistency that most people dont bother to confront.

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i think it has been not only "confronted" but completely shot down here

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my lawyer friends have lied to me repeatedly

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That depends on the context of their answer.


They may mean that they feel compelled because if they refused the judge's order they could be disciplined or lose their license.

While this might be true, they can still walk away and not do the job. I never said there would be zero consequences.

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No, they didn't actually have to do that. They may have signed up to be on the court appointment list, if so then they are obligated to do so but they still made the choice to volunteer to potentially be appointed

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well my point was predicated on rural attorneys not having a choice sometimes, so if thats not true then im out

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That does not mean anyone has the right to force others to provide that care or food for them.

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What about forcing judges to hear their fair trial?

Given that the quality of healthcare access is limited - just like Superbowl tickets as opposed to Friday night high school - do all people (morality and civic responsibility nws) have a Right to a ticket?

Do people what choose not to help work and create the goods and services required for healthcare...have the same Right as those who do work to create such?

Do all people have the same Rights, regardless of their action? I.e., does a murderer have a Right to freedom? Equal healthcare to an honest and hard working citizen?

You can be with Bernie, but that don't make either of you right, morally superior or even and especially realistic, in a political sense.

We all hope to get to the point wherein health care is "ubiquitous"...but if we ever get there, it will be because of the people who follow Pres. John Kennedy's admonition..."ask not what your Country can do for you, but what you can do for your Country". Until that day, the honest, hard working folk deserve the best healthcare that they can afford...and hucksters who play the System (top or bottom) have zero right to that which they CHOSE to not earn. At the least, all people should bring something to the responsibility table. Otherwise, the implied social contract goes to hell, and us with it.

Enforced labor is slavery.

Your point, like that of the OP, is philosophically shallow.

A RIGHT is PERSONALLY exercised. NOT executed by the enforced servitude of another on your behalf. That is slavery.


If you're going to discuss rights, you damn well better start reading.

I suggest you start with Locke.

If you can't understand Locke and the idea of natural rights, then we cannot debate your perverse marxist twists on Bentham's Utilitarianism (unoriginal garbage, by the way, and you're not even as eloquent about lipsticking that pig as Sartre).


If you don't know to what I'm referring, well then you need to read more before declaring a right to my labor.

oh ive read the 2nd treatise, and Mill, and other stuff leading up to Mises and Rothbard

I was just making a point about the 6th amendment, and apparently its not true that lawyers can be compelled, so I was wrong and I learned something

Excellent, level-headed response.

Those who really think about this will understand the monumental difference between a right that can be exercised personally and the enforced servitude of another citizen.

I get tired of discussing with brain-dead "I have a right to force you to treat me" types. Thanks for reading.

No one has a "right" to healthcare. The very idea is philosophically preposterous. It is antithetical to free citizenry in a free Republic.