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re: How can you possibly deny that healthcare is a human right?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 2:56 pm to TigerRad
Posted on 2/5/20 at 2:56 pm to TigerRad
quote:
beside the point
No, it is the crux of your entire argument.
Just stop. You backed yourself in to a corner thinking you had some kind of gotcha, and now you're looking like an idiot.
Word of advice. Don't trot out the Constitution unless you're damn sure you know what you're talking about.
2
Posted on 2/5/20 at 2:56 pm to TigerRad
quote:
Your interpretation is perfectly defensible, but you must recognize that youre in a small minority and that ship has sailed long ago.
You miss the point. Those lawyers in training are paid.
Who pays the doctors hospitals, support staff for every person in the country?
Your assumption to forced labor went out of favor with the slave masters of old.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 2:56 pm to BlackHelicopterPilot
quote:
How "frequent"? What percentage?
if its more than zero, my point holds
quote:
Is that SAME percentage okay with you as it comes to medicine / physicians?
not arguing the conclusion about health care...no percentage would make that a right either
quote:
Ugh...okay.
finally a concession
Posted on 2/5/20 at 2:58 pm to TigerRad
Right so amend the Constitution.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 2:59 pm to Dale51
quote:
Those lawyers in training are paid.
of course. But they cant say no if a judge orders them to work.
quote:
Who pays the doctors hospitals, support staff for every person in the country?
hopefully not me...we all agree about this
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:01 pm to TigerRad
quote:As are doctors .... NOW .... under current US Law. That is not the proposition at hand. The proposition is communist-style reimbursement price fixing by the government for for an entire sector.
Attorneys are frequently compelled
The Sanders' proposition would change your premise of "frequently compelled" to one of "universally compelled" across all sectors of law, civil and criminal, elective, urgent, or obligatory.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:01 pm to Centinel
quote:
No, it is the crux of your entire argument.
assistance is an action
you have still never addressed this
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:01 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
And yet none of them put a man on the moon
And the IS is ranked the most innovative concerning healthcare.
Inverse relationship established
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:03 pm to TigerRad
quote:You are either unaware of the current status of law as similarly applied to Medicine, or you misinterpret "the logic of this thread".
my only point is "assistance of counsel" is another's labor, and therefore the 6th undermines the logic of this thread
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:03 pm to TigerRad
quote:
tell that to rural lawyers who are forced to do shite work for shite pay
because of the 6th
Forced?? You serious Clark?
I missed your answer to my question about whether you claimed that people in the US are denied healthcare.
Is that what you claim?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:04 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
As are doctors .... NOW .... under current US Law. That is not the proposition at hand. The proposition is communist-style reimbursement price fixing by the government for for an entire sector.
The Sanders' proposition would change your premise of "frequently compelled" to one of "universally compelled" across all sectors of law, civil and criminal, elective, urgent, or obligatory.
total agreement here
again I am not trying to defend government provided healthcare
I am a physician myself and deeply favor free markets and total separation of government and health (not to mention government and economy or anything else.)
Im just pointing out a logical inconsistency that most people dont bother to confront.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:05 pm to tiggerthetooth
Because it's not.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:07 pm to TigerRad
quote:
assistance is an action
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense."
Again, where in this Amendment is the statement that such assistance is to be provided by the State?
You made the claim the Sixth states that such assistance must be provided by the State.
So please point out in the above where this statement is located.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:08 pm to TigerRad
quote:
Im just pointing out a logical inconsistency
You have yet to point out any logical inconsistency.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:09 pm to TigerRad
quote:
Attorneys are frequently compelled by judges to represent defendants in rural areas or areas with inadequate PD coverage.
They have the right to refuse...correct?
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:10 pm to TigerRad
quote:Right.
I am a physician myself and deeply favor free markets and total separation of government and health (not to mention government and economy or anything else.)
Im just pointing out a logical inconsistency that most people dont bother to confront.
And as a radiologist you fully understand the law as it currently applies to medicine is virtually identical to any requisite counsel concepts you're noting.
But Medicare for all, or Berniecare has nothing to do with either.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:11 pm to NC_Tigah
the dominant argument in the thread has been "there can be no right to healthcare because there can be no right to the goods or services of doctors, nurses, hospitals etc."
if that is a misunderstanding, please point it out.
My only goal is point out that there is a non health related example of a constitutionally granted right to the labor of another ("assistance of counsel"), and this undermines the above argument.
I personally dont think the labor argument is at all necessary to refute healthcare as a human right.
if that is a misunderstanding, please point it out.
My only goal is point out that there is a non health related example of a constitutionally granted right to the labor of another ("assistance of counsel"), and this undermines the above argument.
I personally dont think the labor argument is at all necessary to refute healthcare as a human right.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:13 pm to TigerRad
quote:
My only goal is point out that there is a non health related example of a constitutionally granted right to the labor of another ("assistance of counsel")
No, it doesn't.
You ignoring me doesn't change the fact your assertion is flat out wrong.
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:13 pm to tiggerthetooth
Human rights don't appropriate the skill, time, and knowledge of another human being to exist or be exercised.
Health care does.
Health care is a form of Christian charity as exhibited in the story of the Good Samaritan. It is not a human right.
Health care does.
Health care is a form of Christian charity as exhibited in the story of the Good Samaritan. It is not a human right.
This post was edited on 2/5/20 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 2/5/20 at 3:14 pm to TigerRad
quote:
as soon as someone can reconcile their "no right to labor" argument with "assistance of counsel" right.
This is nonsense.
They are paid.
You can't be this dense.
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