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Started By
Message
re: How accurate is Oliver Stone’s “Untold History of the United States”?
Posted on 5/4/19 at 10:44 am to rallyTiger
Posted on 5/4/19 at 10:44 am to rallyTiger
quote:
Oswald was trained in soviet union and cuba, communist got a us president knocked off
I've always thought it was pretty smelly how about a decade after McCarthy (and all the bitching associated with him), at the height of the Cold War, when "The Man" was firmly in control...
Somehow or another a guy:
1) Defects to Russia
2) Come back (with a Russian wife, who was the niece of a Russian Colonel who was in the "Ministry of Internal Affairs," apparently involved with Intelligene activities)
3) After he comes back, no one keeps an eye on him.
4) He runs around here and there, consorting with communists, going to Mexico, etc.
5) Mail orders a gun, and ... well you know the rest.
BS. He was allowed back in the country and let loose, because someone wanted him that way, before knocking off Kennedy was in anyone's head.
1
Posted on 5/4/19 at 10:54 am to OBReb6
quote:could be because everyone knows about his issues.
) but for the most part left Kennedy alone in that regard.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 10:55 am to Ace Midnight
quote:This. Europe wanted and needed the US in the war, but the majority of us back on the home front were very reluctant to get back into another conflict that wasn't on our soil.
No, but it does seem as though the attack was allowed.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:30 am to blueboy
quote:
No, but it does seem as though the attack was allowed.
It's just wholly unsupported and unsupportable as an argument. Were we a little overconfident about our ability to handle the Japanese? Sure.
There were all kinds of signs of Japanese naval activity for weeks. Certainly Kimmel's staff had noticed things and red flags went all the way up to the White House.
Our flawed assessment at the time was that the Japanese were incapable of projecting power all the way to Hawaii. We assumed their early primary target would be Phillipines. Guam and Wake Island? Sure they could reach those. Maybe Midway.
But Hawaii? That operation was extraordinarily audacious and completely unexpected. This Japanese "Hail Mary" required them to rewrite and invent new rules about carrier operations in order to pull off.
Although not quite as directly effective, we had to do the same thing with Doolittle's Raid, but I digress.
This isn't a situation like Coventry when the powers that be had to allow a raid to protect an extremely valuable intelligence source.
If we had been fully ready for the strike at Pearl Harbor and fought them off/destroyed their carriers, it still would have been enough of a provocation for us to enter the war, so if we knew, why didn't we do that?
Anyone who sincerely believes that all those leaders, all the way up to Roosevelt knew we were going to get those battleships sunk and all those boys killed and let it happen anyway for political reasons needs his/her/(however the individual pronouns) meds checked.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:54 am to Ace Midnight
Either way, it wasn't unprovoked. We had men there, fighting as mercenaries under Army control.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 11:58 am to Sunbeam
quote:
I've always thought it was pretty smelly how about a decade after McCarthy (and all the bitching associated with him), at the height of the Cold War, when "The Man" was firmly in control...
Somehow or another a guy:
1) Defects to Russia
2) Come back (with a Russian wife, who was the niece of a Russian Colonel who was in the "Ministry of Internal Affairs," apparently involved with Intelligene activities)
3) After he comes back, no one keeps an eye on him.
4) He runs around here and there, consorting with communists, going to Mexico, etc.
5) Mail orders a gun, and ... well you know the rest.
Yup, all sorts of conspiracy theories out there about kennedys death, yet must dont know the actual truth, the fricking Russians and cubans did it
Posted on 5/4/19 at 12:12 pm to blueboy
quote:
We had men there, fighting as mercenaries under Army control.
You mean the Tigers (
)? Their first action was 20 December 1941, at Rangoon.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 1:37 pm to rebelrouser
quote:
Please. Oswold killed Kennedy. Every single "suspicious" claim about that has been debunked. JFK is the most twisted and untrue historical movie of all time.
I agree with you, but we are likely outnumbered on this board. I've carefully examined the JFK Assassination since around 1988, and I used to believe in a conspiracy. But a critical, open-minded look tells otherwise.
Oswald acted alone.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 1:42 pm to SeekTheTruth
quote:no they didn't. This makes no sense, and has no documented backing whatsoever.
I'm not disputing who actually pulled the trigger, although there is plenty of evidence that Oswald wasn't the lone shooter. Hell, they called off his secret service as he turned the corner
quote:Are you a novice here? Is this a new topic to you?
to go down the road where he was shot
quote:go on... I'm always up for a good trip into fiction / speculation.
Not only was it an assassination but also a sacrifice that has esoteric meanings. The location is key here.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 3:13 pm to SeekTheTruth
quote:
Where is Dallas on a map?
frick it, I'll bite:
Texas?
Posted on 5/4/19 at 3:27 pm to Ace Midnight
Posted on 5/4/19 at 3:39 pm to SeekTheTruth
quote:
Where is Dallas on a map?
I think you are on to something. But please tell us what.
BTW, the answer is south of Oklahoma and west of Louisiana.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 3:47 pm to SeekTheTruth
quote:
There is evidence that points to the man in the front seat or the grassy knoll. Stop watching the History channel....it is controlled by them.
It is so funny how some who think they are "in the know" and all of us sheep just follow along.
I know who owns the History Channel. How is it that you do not realize that the far-left is HELPED by the conspiracy theories? By that I mean if JFK was killed by a far-left (Communist) that obviously doesn't help their cause out at all.
Watch ANY program on the History Channel, and you will see an effort in the early part of the show, to describe Dallas as a far-right, hate-filled, racist, city in a Kennedy-disliking state. Seriously... find me the show that does NOT show the "Wanted/JFK" (for treason) ad in the Dallas Morning News... you won't. Because the left is helped by describing Dallas as hate-filled and right-wing.
And yet, a fricking COMMUNIST did the deed. Now who needs to SeekTheTruth. It is not me, you little lamb.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 3:47 pm to Stingray
quote:
It is nice to hear a different perspective from the generally accepted truth, and there are kernels of truth to what is said.
Yep. I disagree with him about dropping the bomb. That was definitely the right decision. The rest of the documentary is a just a bunch of leftist alternative history that is based on facts, but the presentation and interpretation is wrapped by ideology so much that it is basically.
However, I do think that he got it right about Truman though. Truman was too worried about politics and making it appear as if he was not backing down to Stalin. I think Truman's inability to get a long with and deal with Stalin like FDR and Churchill had is a big reason that the cold war got started. Which is why I support Trump and Putin, Trump and Xi, Trump and the little fat man, etc having as many summits as needed. I do not support appeasement but I also do not support escalation without face to face negotiations first.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 4:32 pm to OBReb6
I read the book a few years ago. It's a lengthy read and covers a lot of years.
I don't remember it pissing me off...so I guess that is a good thing.
I don't remember it pissing me off...so I guess that is a good thing.
This post was edited on 5/4/19 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 5/4/19 at 4:36 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:AVG. Yes.
You mean the Tigers
quote:
Their first action was 20 December 1941, at Rangoon.
Right. Chennault had been there since 1937, flying obsolete Russian biplanes. When they got the deal for the P-40's, it was very much under the direction and supervision of Roosevelt and the US Army.
I talked to his widow on the phone once, for a report I did in HS.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 4:49 pm to blueboy
So a few Mercenaries in China required a full scale invasion of South East Asia and the Philippines along with a full scale attack on the American fleet.
Provocation my arse.
Provocation my arse.
Posted on 5/4/19 at 4:56 pm to OleWar
If anything , Truman was not aggressive enough against the Russians early on. He actually knew better , but FDR’s hubris that he “knew how to handle undocked Joe” made Truman feel that he should go against his natural instinct to distress Stalin. He learned the hard way in 47/48 and it almost cost him the election.
In retrospect , both Korea and Vietnam were useless wars. The countries had no strategic importance. We should have focused on Eastern Europe. Kennedy realized it soon after Bay of Pigs ( that communism is very poor third world countries did not present a strategic threat ).
In retrospect , both Korea and Vietnam were useless wars. The countries had no strategic importance. We should have focused on Eastern Europe. Kennedy realized it soon after Bay of Pigs ( that communism is very poor third world countries did not present a strategic threat ).
Posted on 5/4/19 at 4:58 pm to WeeWee
quote:
However, I do think that he got it right about Truman though. Truman was too worried about politics and making it appear as if he was not backing down to Stalin. I think Truman's inability to get a long with and deal with Stalin like FDR and Churchill had is a big reason that the cold war got started.
Greek children were being abducted by communists and sent to education camps and whole villages systematically murdered by the Communists.
Wallace Stone's hero even wrote an article called "Where I was Wrong" about communist duplicity and how he should not have been so much for appeasement.
quote:
More and more I am convinced that Russian Communism in its total disregard of truth, in its fanaticism, its intolerance and its resolute denial of God and religion is something utterly evil.
Wallace's words not mine
LINK
Posted on 5/4/19 at 5:01 pm to michael corleone
quote:
In retrospect , both Korea and Vietnam were useless wars.
So you would have been cool with a unified Communist North Korea. And would Thailand or the Philippines been worth defending.
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