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re: Hmmm...I wonder what the insurance policy is for Mandalay Bay

Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:16 pm to
Posted by 4LSU2
Member since Dec 2009
38085 posts
Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

but how were they in any way negligent?


I'm not saying I agree with it, but would not be surprised if this is the the case. I cou,d see a case made for them being negligent in not identifying the firearms and ammo being transported into the room.

What else did they miss? How long was the room service cart in the hall with the camera on it?
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10613 posts
Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:20 pm to
They'd have a layer of self insurance. Maybe 50MM. Then probably buy 500MM in excess of 50MM. TRIA is non applicable here more than likely. No exclusions on their self insurance. Might or might not be on the excess, but I doubt it. Depends on their risk manager. Most risk managers have no idea what they're doing. You would think MGM would have crisis management coverage.

The tort in Nevada goes forward. Coverage does as well. Negligence won't be necessary, but it will be found.

MGM isn't the only party either.

Not sure what the risk manager or SFP will say, but let's just say I have some insight into Nevada casino insurance and risk management, and their tort system.
Posted by THRILLHO
Old Metairie near Cleary
Member since Apr 2006
50399 posts
Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:29 pm to
quote:

I cou,d see a case made for them being negligent in not identifying the firearms and ammo being transported into the room.


Not a lawyer, but I'd imagine that if this sets precedent in hotels being responsible for what customers take into their rooms, then the hotel industry is as good as fricked.

quote:

What else did they miss? How long was the room service cart in the hall with the camera on it?



A pushcart taking up half of a hallway being responsible for the deaths of ~60 people not even staying in the building? And if he did put cameras on a cart (I know that he had some setup in the hall, but didn't know that it was on a cart), then I doubt that one of the employees put it there. I'd bet my life that he moved one to the most strategic position. So now hotels need to lock up towel/cleaning carts for fear of their being used to aide mass murders?

It's obviously a horrible situation for these people, but I agree with the previous poster re: I hope the hotel wins, and that the people that sue are on the hook for the costs of the lawsuit.
Posted by CptBengal
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
71661 posts
Posted on 10/3/17 at 9:33 pm to
quote:

Not a lawyer, but I'd imagine that if this sets precedent in hotels being responsible for what customers take into their rooms, then the hotel industry is as good as fricked.



Or the reason for federal mandate of scanners at the entrances to hotels.

Welcome top the actual implementation of the broken window theory
Posted by Mr.Perfect
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2013
17609 posts
Posted on 10/3/17 at 10:03 pm to
Oh... they are absolutely getting sued.

This is going to be an absolutely game changing case too.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 10/3/17 at 10:08 pm to
This might be one of the bizarre cases where the plaintiffs actually want to be in federal court. I think it would be highly unlikely for a Nevada court to impose a duty of care to inspect items going to a guests hotel room.

Even in federal court that seems like an extreme legal reach. The plaintiffs will also have an issue proving proximate cause.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10613 posts
Posted on 10/4/17 at 3:22 pm to
I think proving either, or both, are entirely unnecessary to construe insurance coverage.

This said, I also posted earlier that MGG will not be the only defendant here.
Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
85668 posts
Posted on 10/4/17 at 3:25 pm to
There is usually a terrorism exclusion in most GL policies.
This post was edited on 10/4/17 at 3:25 pm
Posted by AlceeFortier
Member since Dec 2016
1795 posts
Posted on 10/4/17 at 5:34 pm to
It will be filed. You can book it.
Posted by tedmarkuson
texas
Member since Feb 2015
2592 posts
Posted on 10/4/17 at 5:42 pm to
quote:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but how were they in any way negligent?


well let's just have a look see at those security tapes and find out.

mgm grand's ceo is a big never trump "real conservative" who supported hillary.

this should be good.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10613 posts
Posted on 10/4/17 at 5:50 pm to
TRIA is not applicable here.

eta. TRIA is not applicable yet.

Nevada law does define terrorism however. But again, this is entirely a non issue for the self insured layer. That will likely take a successful tort to trigger this, but negligence wont need to be proven.

MGM discloses on their shareholder reports that it might not have adequate coverage, either from a liability perspective, or business interruption perspective.

The time element perspective is the most interesting. If that was rejected by their risk manager, that risk manager would need to be terminated for malfeasance immediately.

The TRIA premium on excess property, which would include both domestic and foreign acts, would be so small, it is baffling why someone who calls themselves a risk manager would go without.

I'm assuming hte excess coverage in force. Likely a safe assumption as MGM, and its various entities would own several billion in property value, so to self insure the first $500MM is reasonable.

Except MGM, and its various entities have gone BK so many time, reasonable might not be the case. But a Federal BK person somewhere would have by definition, to force them to have coverage.

But again, I've seen some strange things in LV casino bankruptcies. I have some experience in Las Vegas casinos, their torts, insurance coverage, and bankruptcies.

Why won't I gamble at a MGM property? That's an entirely different thread, although very interesting, to me at least, and somewhat related.

It's too bad about MB. They have some very nice suites, and a very decent high limits baccarat area. Without the nonsense of some of the more uppity places.


This post was edited on 10/4/17 at 6:05 pm
Posted by 632627
LA
Member since Dec 2011
15131 posts
Posted on 10/4/17 at 6:01 pm to
quote:

Generally insurance policies don't cover intentional acts or acts of terrorism.


i believe that's if the insured committed the act, or if an act of terrorism caused a loss to the insured.

in this case, the claim is that mandalay's negligence led to the loss (of life).

edit- i dont think mandalay was negligent in any way, but i agree they will get sued
This post was edited on 10/4/17 at 6:03 pm
Posted by hammer10
Member since Oct 2017
1 post
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:06 am to
My guess is the "Tower" of casualty insurance is $500M ---$1B or more excess of an SIR. The exact amount of limits will be easy to to find as many insurance companies are included in the "Tower" AND numerous reinsurers all over the world. LIABILITY WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE. The amount of limits will NOT be confidential. Whatever the amount is will be thrown into a pot after the defense lawyers milk it for all they can get. Numerous other defendants will throw there limits into the same pot after there defense lawyers milk it to death. Then a Special Master like Kenneth Feinberg will be appointed and settle all claims. This is the way these things work. I have been in the insurance industry for over 40 years of which 30 years in reinsurance claims. I have seen it all!
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
87396 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:11 am to
quote:

LIABILITY WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE. T
Really?

quote:

after the defense lawyers milk it for all they can get.


quote:

after there defense lawyers milk it to death.


Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:15 am to
Anyone who says liability won't be an issue is a fool.
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