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re: Help me understand the “pro immigration” argument
Posted on 7/12/20 at 10:54 am to Armytiger87
Posted on 7/12/20 at 10:54 am to Armytiger87
It’s an economic argument. Humanity is better off when people are given access to an economy that allows them to produce goods and provide services.
You can’t take full advantage of free market capitalism without an open labor market.
Most objections like pending social upheaval and welfare abuse are ancillary concerns that could be addressed without barring people access to the US economy.
To cage human potential in an unproductive, repressive country is not only a detriment to mankind but also a detriment to our own national interests. Despots have a way of luring and organizing those marginalized people and harnessing that human capital for anti-American causes.
You can’t take full advantage of free market capitalism without an open labor market.
Most objections like pending social upheaval and welfare abuse are ancillary concerns that could be addressed without barring people access to the US economy.
To cage human potential in an unproductive, repressive country is not only a detriment to mankind but also a detriment to our own national interests. Despots have a way of luring and organizing those marginalized people and harnessing that human capital for anti-American causes.
2
Posted on 7/12/20 at 10:55 am to victoire sécurisé
quote:
Most objections like pending social upheaval and welfare abuse are ancillary concerns that could be addressed
But won’t be.
And we’re not stupid.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 10:56 am to sabes que
quote:
One of the arguments would be looking at the current birth rate in the US. Then look at the problems on the horizon with us having a disproportionate older population with the baby boomers entering a later stage in life. Look at the problems this is causing Japan right now. A country gets into problems if the population is disproportionately older than working age.
The solution is automation and efficiency, not bringing in hordes of uneducated, unskilled people many of who are themselves drains on the system. Find the balance. If your company is failing to make a profit, you look for ways to reduce costs and increase efficiency. You don't keep pumping money into it hoping it will magically become successful without changing the way you operate.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:03 am to Armytiger87
quote:
-Immigration restrictions are what ultimately caused the fall of the Roman Empire (heard this from a lefty I work with, haven’t been able to verify this claim)
This is patently false. It is widely known that Rome's reliance on foreigners in the military and allowing so many foreigners within its borders greatly contributed to its fall. Your lefty coworker obviously doesn't know the story of Alaric.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:21 am to victoire sécurisé
quote:
free market capitalism
as you mean it is a post modern adolescent masturbatory fantasy and you're an idiot.
free market capitalism has always meant the free flow of capital. nations have always charged for the acess of goods and services to their economies, throughout history most country's placed barriers to capital investments into their country as well. what made the united states different is that we welcomed foreign capital investment in our country.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:31 am to the808bass
I guess you haven’t tried to hire qualified employees in all fields. I’m not an expert in all levels of immigration but have talked to many in golf,landscaping and construction fields Most employers don’t care about skin color or sex. They want some one to show up on time and solve more problems than they create. Talk to any manager and employees are always their biggest problem.
After long periods of worrying about will they show up on Saturday if I pay on Friday, finding anyone with a work ethic is refreshing. It’s not always about pay. The same problems I faced with near minimum wage jobs are there in construction with jobs paying $34+. For years many white and black Americans raised their families as roofers. Have you seen who is raising their families roofing houses now. They are people willing to do hot hard work to better their families that happen to have been born else where.
The best argument for limited immigration is there is no such thing as zero unemployment. An unemployed fast food worker in Atlanta can’t fill a nursing job in small town Iowa. Businesses in the Permian Basin and North Dakota have been begging for employees. Immigrants are more will to move to where the Jobs are rather than demand the job be brought to them. Many Americans want a mindless job they qualify for but do badly get them out of poverty
Hiring illegal or barely legal employees has many problems. Most would hire locals if that didn’t bring even more problems .
Balancing immigration to allow some wage growth without inflation is the key. Unlimited immigration would wipe out the system that attracted the immigrants in the first place. A system that provides safety and an opportunity to better themselves.
The government can help the inner cities with things like opportunity zones but it’s still a persons responsibility to take advantage. Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.
After long periods of worrying about will they show up on Saturday if I pay on Friday, finding anyone with a work ethic is refreshing. It’s not always about pay. The same problems I faced with near minimum wage jobs are there in construction with jobs paying $34+. For years many white and black Americans raised their families as roofers. Have you seen who is raising their families roofing houses now. They are people willing to do hot hard work to better their families that happen to have been born else where.
The best argument for limited immigration is there is no such thing as zero unemployment. An unemployed fast food worker in Atlanta can’t fill a nursing job in small town Iowa. Businesses in the Permian Basin and North Dakota have been begging for employees. Immigrants are more will to move to where the Jobs are rather than demand the job be brought to them. Many Americans want a mindless job they qualify for but do badly get them out of poverty
Hiring illegal or barely legal employees has many problems. Most would hire locals if that didn’t bring even more problems .
Balancing immigration to allow some wage growth without inflation is the key. Unlimited immigration would wipe out the system that attracted the immigrants in the first place. A system that provides safety and an opportunity to better themselves.
The government can help the inner cities with things like opportunity zones but it’s still a persons responsibility to take advantage. Equality of opportunity not equality of outcome.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:34 am to roadGator
quote:
The easiest is the fact that you can not have unfettered immigration AND a welfare state.
I am fine with open borders if we cut out welfare programs
Posted on 7/12/20 at 11:57 am to Dawgfanman
quote:Spoken like a true economic illiterate.
Money supply is infinite. That’s because it’s just ink on paper.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:35 pm to Armytiger87
We are all pro-immigrant. We need to follow our own laws and quit letting law-breakers cut the line.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 12:53 pm to Jp1LSU
quote:
I dated a girl at LSU who couldn’t believe that MLB brought in foreigners to play baseball. She felt as though the catcher for the NY Yankees should be an American, unless no American wants the job then and only then should they look for foreign labor. I was kind of blindsided by her take on that.
I don’t think it would affect the product as much as how they market the product.
Posted on 7/12/20 at 1:14 pm to Armytiger87
Lack of intellectual capital. Basically, some citizens are too lazy to work, as recently, people on unemployment make more than people working, and 2., alit of our citizens are to stupid, they can't read or write. Therefore, let the immigrants in.
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