re: Greenwald Drops Cluster Bombs Of Truth Regarding The War In Ukraine

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The point is that Russia is throwing everything it has into Ukraine

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JC

He’s also got 5 hours worth of interviews with Putin that are interesting

The OT thread perfectly encapsulates how neoconservatism has infected the American left the last 7 years. Donald Trump's relatively dovish foreign policy has turned people who used to claim to be anti-war into worshippers of Bill Kristol and the rest of the Bush neocons. And many of these folks are the same people who want to take your guns, but they'll willingly send your tax dollars abroad to arm Ukrainians.

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Finland doesn't fear Russia. It's beat them like a dog in the past.

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I have a friend in Finland that is required to serve. He doesn’t share your opinion.

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JackieTreehorn

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Your hatred of Stormin Norman is noted, commie.

The destroyed Soviet Tank is the foremost symbol of modern warfare, littering the battlefield of every war since WW2

frick communism

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Finland doesn't fear Russia. It's beat them like a dog in the past.

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I’m sorry but these statements are just completely false.

First, I think Finland does fear Russia somewhat. I think that can be illustrated by Finland rushing to NATO.

Second, Russia wrecked havoc against Finland the last time they faced off against each other in WW2, the result of which was Finland losing significant chunks of its territory, paying war reparations to the Soviets, and staying out of the orbit of the West (in aspects such as NATO, Marshall Plan, etc). More Soviet soldiers were killed than Fins but that’s pretty much the case in every war fought by Russians. They’re like the Rocky Balboa of war; they take a beating but usually stumble to achieving their objective.

Now, we can debate whether Putin invading Ukraine is a strategic blunder; I think it’s too soon to know. I think he envisioned sanctions and determined Russia could withstand them. I think he was aware of the possibility Finland could move closer or join NATO and decided asserting control over part of Ukraine and maintaining pressure and influence was worth the outcome regarding Finland. One could argue what has he lost in that regard? Finland already worked in partnership with NATO even though they were not a member. Their military used Western weapons and equipment and drilled with NATO. Finland has stated that it does not intend to base NATO troops permanently in country. Ukraine is a much more strategic country to Russia in every manner: geographic, cultural, ethnic, industrial, agricultural, political. Russia may tolerate western influence on Finland. But they will not tolerate western control of Ukraine. Moreover, because of Ukraine’s corrupt government, it is much more susceptible to Western control, influence, bribery. I think all of this went into Putin’s strategy. Of course, like I said, the result can be debated and is inconclusive at this point.

What can’t be debated is the morality and ethics of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. It is unacceptable from that viewpoint. War is an abomination.

Finland did lose some ground in the Winter War with Russia which invaded with 500,000 the first year then back with 750,000 the second against a nation with 3.5 million total population. In WWII Finland did invade Russia and the borders returned to post Winter War.

What Finland is seeing happening in Russia is the Russia's military is showing its complete ineptitude. I tend to think that due its only potential foe being Russia, Finland has a good idea of what is happening inside of Russia.

As far as trade, Finland maintained good trade relations with Russia even throughout the Cold War, as did Sweden. That is how I ended up with a Russian refinery manager looking at units and equipment to buy from a Shell SoCal refinery I was dismantling and selling off in 1992/3, two brokers, one from Finland and the other from Sweden. The only English the Russian exhibited knowing was "Thank you, Mr. Roosevelt" with the Finn seemingly knowing less. The Swede was the interpreter.

Russia has nukes, Finland doesn't. Putain's sabre rattling helped both countries make their decision. Russia could rearm itself in several years. So this is more about future not about today. Russia has a few hundred years of being a known aggressor whether Russian Federation, USSR, or Imperial Russia. This is the case with a host of bordering nations.

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Good grief. Finland isn’t going to start a land war with Russia. That is just fricking stupid. You want Putin to Nuke somebody? Have Finland move one person across the border and he will turn that country into the worlds biggest parking lot.

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The reason Finland would attack is to prevent Russia from nuking somebody. Much of Russia’s deployable nuclear strike capabilities are centered around their bases on the cola peninsula close to the Finnish border. There is one highway and utility corridor running roughly 100km from the Finnish border which connects these bases with the rest of Russia.

Finland is the only location from which an attack could feasibly be carried out from which Russia’s “mutually assured destruction” retaliatory strike capabilities could be largely neutered before said strike could be launched.

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Almost every single military action the us has taken part in since 1945 has been an embarrassing, pathetic failure.

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This applies to every single one of the WW2 Allies, and every major nation in general.

I thought the American education system was the bologna.