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Message
re: General Wesley Clark: The US will attack 7 countries in 5 years
Posted on 7/25/17 at 9:54 am to Ace Midnight
Posted on 7/25/17 at 9:54 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Without powerful patrons, he never would have risen to any national prominence. I don't say this lightly about a former brother-in-arms, but Clark is a blithering idiot.
Wouldn't you sound a lot less sheepish if you could refute his points?
Did Rumsfeld not lay out plans right after 9/11 to invade 7 countries in 5 years?
Gen. Clark says his former subordinates briefed him to that effect. Did that not happen?
0
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:01 am to kilo
quote:
Getting rid of Saddam was a big objective of Israel bullshite.
Iran is and has been a far bigger threat to Isreal.
How?
This was the problem Israel had with Saddam:
Saddam Rewards Suicide Bombers' Families
On the front steps of the tattered YMCA here, people walk on mock Israeli and American flags arranged as doormats. Inside, the stage is festooned with Iraqi and Palestinian flags.
A large banner depicts the Al Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem, one of Islam's holiest sites, dripping in blood. In one corner, the larger-than-life faces of Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein smile side by side on a poster.
After 50 minutes of fiery speeches praising Saddam and Arafat and vilifying President Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 Palestinians are called to the stage one by one. Each is handed a check — a gift from Saddam Hussein.
Each recipient is the mother, father, wife or other close relative of either a suicide bomber or someone killed in a clash with Israeli soldiers or security guards at settlements in the Gaza Strip or West Bank.
Today's donation: a total of $285,000 — a princely sum in the economically distressed Gaza Strip.
One of the recipients is Nada Mahdi, a 22-year-old student, who arrived for the ceremony carrying her 3-month-old son, Ismail. Her husband, Mohammad, blew himself up last month trying to attack an Israeli military post in the Gaza Strip. There were no other injuries in the incident.
"I am proud of him," she says in Arabic after collecting her $25,000 check. "May God reward him."
Soliciting Murder?
In the two years of the renewed Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Iraq has given Palestinian families more than $10 million, all according to a well-known scale. Families of suicide bombers get $25,000 each and families of those killed in confrontations with Israel get $10,000. Those who houses are destroyed by the Israeli military get $5,000 and those wounded by Israelis get $1,000.
President Bush says the money rewards and solicits murder. An official of the charity that distributes the money says it symbolizes solidarity between Iraqis and Palestinians — both, he says, targets of American aggression.
"The same weapons that are targeting Iraq are targeting Palestinians," says Abu Samir of the Arabic Liberation Front. "We are in the same bunker."
The group also distributes food from Iraq, and uses Iraqi funds to run hospitals and provide scholarships to Iraqi schools.
Saddam is very popular among many Palestinians because of his active support of the Palestinian cause and his missile attacks on Israel during the Gulf War.
After the ceremony, Mahdi thanked the Iraqi leader. "He is the only one who understands our situation — he's suffering the same tragedy," she says.
Mahdi's husband told her of his suicide mission only just before he left. She says she tried to talk him out of it — to no avail.
"He was determined," she recalls. "I could not stop him — God and the homeland are more important than anything. Even his son."
The money, she says, is for Ismail's future. But it was her husband's wish that — if the Palestinians' lot does not improve — little Ismail grow up to be a suicide bomber, too. His mother agrees."
LINK
Suicide bombers blowing up buses was a problem Israel couldn't solve but we could.
It only cost us 4,500 KIA and as many as 30,000 WIA and many many maimed. For Israel.
So now innocent people are murdered in San Bernadino and Orlando instead of in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
I don't see that as an upside.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 10:02 am
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:01 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:Regime change was a priority.
General Wesley Clark: The US will attack 7 countries in 5 years
What a stroke of "luck" for 9/11 to happen and their agenda could then be rolled out with the backing of a duped America.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:06 am to WhiskeyPapa
Iran is the single greatest financial, militarial and political sponsor of Hezbollah. You can't be this dumb.
Well, you could be...
This is where all of you looks fail with trying to weave the great "Jewsih" conspiracy into every foreign policy decision the US makes.
Sometimes it just doesn't fit no matter how hard you try and spin it and you look foolish.
Well, you could be...
This is where all of you looks fail with trying to weave the great "Jewsih" conspiracy into every foreign policy decision the US makes.
Sometimes it just doesn't fit no matter how hard you try and spin it and you look foolish.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:07 am to WhiskeyPapa
By JOHN ESTERBROOK CBS April 3, 2002, 4:38 PM
Salaries For Suicide Bombers
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has raised the amount offered to relatives of suicide bombers from $10,000 per family to $25,000, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Wednesday.
Since Iraq upped its payments last month, 12 suicide bombers have successfully struck inside Israel, including one man who killed 25 Israelis, many of them elderly, as they sat down to a meal at a hotel to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Passover. The families of three suicide bombers said they have recently received payments of $25,000.
Palestinians say the bombers are driven by a priceless thirst for revenge, religious zeal and dreams of glory — not greed.
Mahmoud Safi, leader of a pro-Iraqi Palestinian group, the Arab Liberation Front, acknowledged that the support payments for relatives make it easier for some potential bombers to make up their minds. "Some people stop me on the street, saying if you increase the payment to $50,000 I'll do it immediately," Safi said. He also suggested such remarks were made mostly in jest.
Saddam has said the Palestinians need weapons and money instead of peace proposals and has provided payments throughout a year and a half of Israeli-Palestinian battles. "I saw on Iraqi TV President Saddam saying he will continue supporting the (uprising) even if it means selling his own clothes," said Safi.
Rumsfeld, who said earlier this week that Saddam and the Iraqi government were offering the lower amount, elaborated on the issue at a Pentagon briefing.
"It turns out that he has raised that amount and it's $25,000 per family, not $10,000 per family," Rumsfeld said.
"Here is an individual who is the head of a country, Iraq, who has proudly, publicly made a decision to go out and actively promote and finance human sacrifice for families that will have their youngsters kill innocent men, women and children," Rumsfeld said.
Though he did not say so, he appeared to refer to the current wave of suicide bombings on Israeli civilian targets.
"I am simply trying to let the people of Iraq understand what their leadership is doing, to let the people of the Middle East and the rest of the world ... know what is in fact being done to arm young people and send them out to blow up restaurants and shopping malls and pizza parlors," he said.
Rumsfeld blasted Iraq, Iran and Syria on Monday for inflaming violence in the Middle East, and said he raised the issue of Iraq on Wednesday to suggest it was important to "recognize that there is an infrastructure to terrorism."
Rumsfeld said Saddam had stated publicly the payment for families "if they're able to persuade a family to have their teen-ager strap explosives on them and go out and kill themselves and kill innocent men, women and children."
"He is pleased with his idea and is promoting it in the region," Rumsfeld said of Saddam. "It is a matter of public record."
Under the new Iraqi payscale, decided on March 12 during an Arab conference in Baghdad, the families of gunmen and others who die fighting the Israelis will still receive $10,000, while the relatives of suicide bombers will get $25,000.
Safi and two others from the Arab Liberation Front visit families in the northern West Bank and make the payments. "We go to every family and give them a check," he said. "We tell them that this is a gift from President Saddam and Iraq."
But Saddam is not the only one giving money. Charities from Saudi Arabia and Qatar — both U.S. allies — pay money to families of Palestinians killed in the fighting, including suicide bombers."
LINK
Israel needed to fix that problem, not us.
Salaries For Suicide Bombers
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has raised the amount offered to relatives of suicide bombers from $10,000 per family to $25,000, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Wednesday.
Since Iraq upped its payments last month, 12 suicide bombers have successfully struck inside Israel, including one man who killed 25 Israelis, many of them elderly, as they sat down to a meal at a hotel to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Passover. The families of three suicide bombers said they have recently received payments of $25,000.
Palestinians say the bombers are driven by a priceless thirst for revenge, religious zeal and dreams of glory — not greed.
Mahmoud Safi, leader of a pro-Iraqi Palestinian group, the Arab Liberation Front, acknowledged that the support payments for relatives make it easier for some potential bombers to make up their minds. "Some people stop me on the street, saying if you increase the payment to $50,000 I'll do it immediately," Safi said. He also suggested such remarks were made mostly in jest.
Saddam has said the Palestinians need weapons and money instead of peace proposals and has provided payments throughout a year and a half of Israeli-Palestinian battles. "I saw on Iraqi TV President Saddam saying he will continue supporting the (uprising) even if it means selling his own clothes," said Safi.
Rumsfeld, who said earlier this week that Saddam and the Iraqi government were offering the lower amount, elaborated on the issue at a Pentagon briefing.
"It turns out that he has raised that amount and it's $25,000 per family, not $10,000 per family," Rumsfeld said.
"Here is an individual who is the head of a country, Iraq, who has proudly, publicly made a decision to go out and actively promote and finance human sacrifice for families that will have their youngsters kill innocent men, women and children," Rumsfeld said.
Though he did not say so, he appeared to refer to the current wave of suicide bombings on Israeli civilian targets.
"I am simply trying to let the people of Iraq understand what their leadership is doing, to let the people of the Middle East and the rest of the world ... know what is in fact being done to arm young people and send them out to blow up restaurants and shopping malls and pizza parlors," he said.
Rumsfeld blasted Iraq, Iran and Syria on Monday for inflaming violence in the Middle East, and said he raised the issue of Iraq on Wednesday to suggest it was important to "recognize that there is an infrastructure to terrorism."
Rumsfeld said Saddam had stated publicly the payment for families "if they're able to persuade a family to have their teen-ager strap explosives on them and go out and kill themselves and kill innocent men, women and children."
"He is pleased with his idea and is promoting it in the region," Rumsfeld said of Saddam. "It is a matter of public record."
Under the new Iraqi payscale, decided on March 12 during an Arab conference in Baghdad, the families of gunmen and others who die fighting the Israelis will still receive $10,000, while the relatives of suicide bombers will get $25,000.
Safi and two others from the Arab Liberation Front visit families in the northern West Bank and make the payments. "We go to every family and give them a check," he said. "We tell them that this is a gift from President Saddam and Iraq."
But Saddam is not the only one giving money. Charities from Saudi Arabia and Qatar — both U.S. allies — pay money to families of Palestinians killed in the fighting, including suicide bombers."
LINK
Israel needed to fix that problem, not us.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:13 am to WhiskeyPapa
You are arguing a Strawman. I never said Saddam was a friend of Israel.
It's clear to anyone with a functioning understanding of Israel/muddle East dynamic that Iran was a much greater threat than Saddam Hussien. Are you really arguing otherwise?
Laughable
It's clear to anyone with a functioning understanding of Israel/muddle East dynamic that Iran was a much greater threat than Saddam Hussien. Are you really arguing otherwise?
Laughable
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 10:14 am
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:18 am to kilo
quote:
Iran is the single greatest financial, militarial and political sponsor of Hezbollah. You can't be this dumb.
I could give a frick less about that.
Israel has sent 800,000 settlers into the West Bank. THEY are the problem, or a big part of it.
And you need to show that Hezbollah was killing more Israelis than the suicide bombers financed by Saddam.
But to your point- Again, the Reagan Administration supported Iraq against Iran in the war against Iran (helping Iran against Iraq with weapons for hostage deals in the same time frame). Was that wrong? Oh wait, that was before the NeoCons decided to help Israel at the expense of United States’ interests. If you thought Iran was SUCH a BIG THREAT then you should have supported a strong Iraq as a counterbalance. Right?
But apparently you didn’t. So since by your lights Hezballah is such a problem, aren’t you upset because the NeoCons wrecked Iraq on behalf of Israel?
I have posted this so much - going back 10-15 years, that I made a draft email to copy it from.
How should it work over there? What is our best policy? Using history as our guide always, we can look at the Brits going back to the Golden Age under Elizabeth.
Brit policy for 300 years was to support a weaker continental country against the strongest continental country. Spain ascendant? Support the Dutch. France Ascendant? Support the Spanish. Russia a problem? Ally with France and support Turkey. Germany ascendant? Support France. Germans at your throat again? Support France again. Unceremoniously ejected from the continent? Enlist the United States.
That policy works. It worked for the Brits for 300 years. We are doing exactly the opposite in our policy currently. The ally we need in that region is IRAN. We pretty much shanghaied them into being our ally in the 1950's. After their revolution we should have enlisted them as such again. The Reagan Administration took them a cake. The Iranians have a large population they have a long and proud history and they are NOT Arab. They hate the Arabs. THEY could act as a foil to Saudi Arabia. which is our greatest enemy in the region by far, and perhaps the world.
Supporting the second strongest power in a region against the strongest is a proven policy.
We don't pursue that policy because the Jewish State doesn't like it.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:20 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
I could give a frick less about that.
Clearly. Most conspiracy theorist types love to ignore basic logical facts that fly in the face of their delusions.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:21 am to TX Tiger
quote:
What a stroke of "luck" for 9/11 to happen and their agenda could then be rolled out with the backing of a duped America.
Yeah, boo hoo for the NeoCons. They were were saying in 1998 that the only way to tackle their agenda would be if there was a new Pearl Harbor attack. Really. And one showed up 3 years later.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:22 am to WhiskeyPapa
This somehow wound up on a website, but I wrote it about ten years ago.
"Cheney At The Bat"
Things looked extremely rocky for the Neo-Cons that day,
Clinton was in office, common sense ruled the day.
If only, Cheney, mighty Cheney could take a whack at that
they'd put even more money on big Oil with Cheney at the bat!
So Chalabi proceded Cheney and likewise so did Niger cake,
the former was a devil the latter was a fake.
But to the wonder of all, Chalabi didn't fall,
and over Yellowcake - the Press took in it all.
And when the Neo-Cons saw what had occured
US Troops were on the Iraqi border, our allies were the Kurds!
Then from five thousand Neo-con throats and more there rose a lusty
yell;
it rumbled through the Wash Post, it rattled in the Jour-nel;
it pounded through on the mountain and recoiled upon the flat;
for Cheney, mighty Cheney, was advancing to the bat.
There was ease in Cheney's manner as he stepped into his place,
there was pride in Cheney's bearing and a smile lit Cheney's face.
And when, responding to the cheers, he lightly doffed his hat,
no stranger in the crowd could doubt t'was Cheney at the bat.
Ten thousand eyes were on him as he rubbed his hands with dirt.
Five thousand tongues applauded when he wiped them on his shirt.
Then, while the writhing Osama made a tape to ship,
defiance flashed in Cheney's eye, a sneer curled Cheney's lip.
And when the fatal liners had come hurtling through the air,
and Cheney stood a-watching them in haughty grandeur there.
Close by the sturdy batsman the responsibility unheeded sped --
"That ain't my style," said Cheney.
"Three thousand dead!" the umpire said.
From the benches, black with apathy, there went up a muffled roar,
like the beating of the storm waves on a stern and distant shore.
"Kill him! Kill the umpire!" shouted the FOX News faithful on the
stand,
and it's likely they'd have killed him had not Cheney raised his
hand.
With a smile of Christian charity, great Cheney's visage shone,
he stilled the rising tumult, he bade the game go on.
He signaled to Osama, and there was a tape anew,
but Cheney still ignored it, and the umpire said, "Strike two!"
"Fraud!" cried the Fox News Faithful, and echo answered "Fraud!"
But one scornful look from Cheney and the Christian Right was awed.
They saw his face grow stern and cold, they saw his muscles strain,
and they knew that Cheney wouldn't let that ball go by again.
The sneer has fled from Cheney's lip, the teeth are clenched in hate.
He pounds, with cruel violence, his bat upon the plate.
And now Osama holds the ball, and now he lets it go,
and now the air is shattered by the force of Cheney's blow.
Oh, somewhere in this formerly favored land the sun is shining
bright.
A funeral moves forward somewhere, and somewhere there's a fight.
And, somewhere men are dying, and little children bleed out,
And there is no victory on Main Street USA --
mighty Cheney has snuck out.
"Cheney At The Bat"
Things looked extremely rocky for the Neo-Cons that day,
Clinton was in office, common sense ruled the day.
If only, Cheney, mighty Cheney could take a whack at that
they'd put even more money on big Oil with Cheney at the bat!
So Chalabi proceded Cheney and likewise so did Niger cake,
the former was a devil the latter was a fake.
But to the wonder of all, Chalabi didn't fall,
and over Yellowcake - the Press took in it all.
And when the Neo-Cons saw what had occured
US Troops were on the Iraqi border, our allies were the Kurds!
Then from five thousand Neo-con throats and more there rose a lusty
yell;
it rumbled through the Wash Post, it rattled in the Jour-nel;
it pounded through on the mountain and recoiled upon the flat;
for Cheney, mighty Cheney, was advancing to the bat.
There was ease in Cheney's manner as he stepped into his place,
there was pride in Cheney's bearing and a smile lit Cheney's face.
And when, responding to the cheers, he lightly doffed his hat,
no stranger in the crowd could doubt t'was Cheney at the bat.
Ten thousand eyes were on him as he rubbed his hands with dirt.
Five thousand tongues applauded when he wiped them on his shirt.
Then, while the writhing Osama made a tape to ship,
defiance flashed in Cheney's eye, a sneer curled Cheney's lip.
And when the fatal liners had come hurtling through the air,
and Cheney stood a-watching them in haughty grandeur there.
Close by the sturdy batsman the responsibility unheeded sped --
"That ain't my style," said Cheney.
"Three thousand dead!" the umpire said.
From the benches, black with apathy, there went up a muffled roar,
like the beating of the storm waves on a stern and distant shore.
"Kill him! Kill the umpire!" shouted the FOX News faithful on the
stand,
and it's likely they'd have killed him had not Cheney raised his
hand.
With a smile of Christian charity, great Cheney's visage shone,
he stilled the rising tumult, he bade the game go on.
He signaled to Osama, and there was a tape anew,
but Cheney still ignored it, and the umpire said, "Strike two!"
"Fraud!" cried the Fox News Faithful, and echo answered "Fraud!"
But one scornful look from Cheney and the Christian Right was awed.
They saw his face grow stern and cold, they saw his muscles strain,
and they knew that Cheney wouldn't let that ball go by again.
The sneer has fled from Cheney's lip, the teeth are clenched in hate.
He pounds, with cruel violence, his bat upon the plate.
And now Osama holds the ball, and now he lets it go,
and now the air is shattered by the force of Cheney's blow.
Oh, somewhere in this formerly favored land the sun is shining
bright.
A funeral moves forward somewhere, and somewhere there's a fight.
And, somewhere men are dying, and little children bleed out,
And there is no victory on Main Street USA --
mighty Cheney has snuck out.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:24 am to kilo
quote:
You are arguing a Strawman. I never said Saddam was a friend of Israel.
I can't remember. Are you the one that was saying Hezbollah was worse than Saddam?
You need to show it.
In any case Israel decided they needed Saddam gone; we could do that for them. Taking out Iran militarily is probably not doable.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:28 am to Gusoline
quote:Am I misreading this or did Gusoline just refer to 5k dead soldiers as no big deal?
oh man, we lost 5k patriots over 15 years in an all volunteer force. the horror! meanwhile we lose 20k+ every year to drunk driving.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:32 am to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
I can't remember. Are you the one that was saying Hezbollah was worse than Saddam?
You need to show it.
You done jumped the shark.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:40 am to kilo
quote:
I could give a frick less about that.
Clearly. Most conspiracy theorist types love to ignore basic logical facts that fly in the face of their delusions.
I didn't say it wasn't factual. I said I didn't care.
You need a class on reading comprehension.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:42 am to kilo
quote:
I can't remember.
Are you the one that was saying Hezbollah was worse than Saddam? You need to show it.
You done jumped the shark.
You've left the argument.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:49 am to Pechon
quote:
I don't doubt the man's resume at all. However, his leadership skills leave a lot to be desired. Clark put himself before his soldiers. He was a self-serving prick who claimed he didn't get promotions or certain commands as generals above him thought he was too smart. When he ran for President in 2004, he viewed himself as the next Dwight D. Eisenhower. Wesley Clark only cares about one thing: Wesley Clark.
I hear you loud and clear and I agree with your assessment. Here's my big concern:
My fear is that the manner in which we breed and raise our Service Academy Officers is geared towards creating General Officers and Flag Officers who are just like GEN Clark. That's my fear. The military system must find a way to make changes if my fear is well-founded. These are destructive and toxic kinds of leaders and they tend to lose more wars than they tend to win.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 10:50 am
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:49 am to Gusoline
quote:
oh man, we lost 5k patriots over 15 years in an all volunteer force. the horror!
We only have so many patriots. We can't waste their lives fighting against the opposite of United States best interests.
When I was a young Marine and it was too hot or too cold or too far, we’d say “if you don’t mind, it don’t matter.”
Now the troops say, “They don’t mind and we don’t matter.”
That attitude will run us out of patriots real quick.
And you should be ashamed.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:54 am to Gusoline
quote:
oh man, we lost 5k patriots over 15 years in an all volunteer force.
Not that you care, but it is more like 4,500 in Iraq and over 2,000 in Afghanistan. And something on the order of 30,000 wounded with many maimed and broken in mind and spirit.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 10:58 am
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:55 am to stat19
Clark was a staff officer originally in Vietnam. He also commanded an infantry unit, and got wounded in battle. I have never been wild about the guy, but I won't impugn, his character or abilities. He's a pretty straight shooter whether you like what he says or not.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:10 am to Champagne
Missed the joke completely. Having said that, I have seen your posts are generally favorable towards him. Personally I am completely unimpressed with him as an officer. But that is solely based on his posting style. He may be a great guy. But I honestly doubt it. In the end, it is an anonymous internet forum. C'est la vie.
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