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re: Don't trust the johnny come lately "the left left me" newcomers

Posted on 12/11/24 at 12:21 pm to
Posted by LegalEazyE
Madison, Wisconsin
Member since Nov 2023
6292 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

you've been watching too much MSM.


Blatantly obvious.
Posted by bhtigerfan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
32994 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

3. Trump’s SECDEF pick wants to essentially remove women from the military, or at least make them second class citizens.
Why you gotta be so dishonest?

He wants to remove women from ground combat roles. That’s it. And the majority of Americans and military members, including many women agree with him.

You may have voted for Trump, but your leftist dishonest tendencies are still alive and well.
This post was edited on 12/11/24 at 12:23 pm
Posted by LegalEazyE
Madison, Wisconsin
Member since Nov 2023
6292 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

quote:
many “republicans” have fallen victim to extremeism in the past several years. We can’t let them take the party with them.


So you took a good hard look at both parties and this is what you came up with?


Posted by RFK
Mar-a-Lago
Member since May 2012
2761 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

He wants to remove women from ground combat roles. That’s it. And the majority of Americans and military members, including many women agree with him.
Here’s why this practically won’t work - what about the women who are serving in these roles and have been for years now?

What do you do about the women who have passed the requisite courses and are serving in Marine Expeditionary Forces, Ranger, Special Forces, etc.

You can’t tell them you now have no job for some political trope that will just be reverted after Hegseth’s tenure is over (and based on the average SECDEF tenure under Trump, that’s about 14 months).

I’m calling it right now - Hegseth either won’t be confirmed because of his statements on this issue, or he’ll back away from them during confirmations.

Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69355 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:28 pm to
I was a member of the anti-war free speech left during the Bush administration. Now, all of the virtues I fought for (individual liberty, anti-censorship, civil rights, privacy, better working conditions) are championed by the right, and the villains I fought against (Dick Chaney, big business, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush, Karl Rove, the Koch Brothers) endorse the left.

I didn’t change my values, the parties did.
This post was edited on 12/11/24 at 3:46 pm
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10679 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:32 pm to
quote:

“republicans” have fallen victim to extremeism


Such as?
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
86100 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

Here’s why this practically won’t work - what about the women who are serving in these roles and have been for years now?

What do you do about the women who have passed the requisite courses and are serving in Marine Expeditionary Forces, Ranger, Special Forces, etc.

You can’t tell them you now have no job for some political trope that will just be reverted after Hegseth’s tenure is over (and based on the average SECDEF tenure under Trump, that’s about 14 months).

I’m calling it right now - Hegseth either won’t be confirmed because of his statements on this issue, or he’ll back away from them during confirmations.


I've never served. I respect women who do. I'm sure plenty are more capable than me in various ways.

But much like the Secret Service, I don't care if it's fair or not, or they worked really hard to get to their position, etc. If the #1 goal is defense/protection to avoid catastrophic results, then anything that has any chance of being an obstacle to that goal should be eliminated. Equality and fairness and inspiring others and whatever else is trumpeted on this topic is irrelevant, and that's without getting to studies about morale and effectiveness being better in all male units.

You say: "Well listen under the right circumstances and accounting for x, y, z a female can pass Q course, how awesome is that?"

I say: "I'm sure that's a remarkable woman who does that. But who cares, how does it serve the core mission special operations?"

Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10679 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

None of these have anything to do with true conservatism.


Well, that is either a lie or a True Scotsman fallacy. You'd have to type more for me to figure out which.

quote:

Trump’s midnight pardons of 3 war criminals degraded trust among the military and our allies who count on us to uphold the law when times are tough.


Or the move gave actual soldiers confidence that they could engage to win without worrying about pencil pushers second guessing their decisions.

I don't know enough about what those people were convicted of to know who was right on that one, but if we're going err with the military I would damn sure rather err on the side of winning than not. If that makes me an "extremist," then I really don't care.

quote:

Trump’s SECDEF pick wants to essentially remove women from the military, or at least make them second class citizens.


Nope. He wants to remove them from combat roles.

There are 178 countries in the world with active duty militaries.

There are 74 countries in the world who allow women to serve in those militaries in any capacity.

Only 13 allow women to serve in combat roles.

Since only 13 out of 178 countries allow women in combat roles—by definition—it is an objective fact that the extreme point of view is to have women serving in active combat roles and the mainstream view is to not allow them to serve in combat roles.

And it's not debateable. Just get a dictionary and look up the relevant words.

Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
39204 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:44 pm to
Define what you think is "extremism". What exact policy positions among mainstream conservatives crosses your arbitrary line?
This post was edited on 12/11/24 at 6:29 pm
Posted by RFK
Mar-a-Lago
Member since May 2012
2761 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:50 pm to
quote:

I say: "I'm sure that's a remarkable woman who does that. But who cares, how does it serve the core mission special operations?"
The fact they’re a man, or woman, shouldn’t matter and it hasn’t for years now. Women who meet the qualifications are serving in those units. Those who don’t, aren’t.

Hegseth is the one making it about sex.

He’s on the wrong side of history, and I think that is what will ultimately keep him from getting confirmed.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
44205 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:57 pm to
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
86100 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

The fact they’re a man, or woman, shouldn’t matter and it hasn’t for years now. Women who meet the qualifications are serving in those units. Those who don’t, aren’t.



I can't speak from experience. All I know is hearing the pretty universal refrain from the combat arms community that women in units require additional work, lowered qualifications and can create stress/tension/etc.

But, beyond that, I don't think there is any question that far fewer women than men can become effective in combat roles. I think all reasonable people would agree. I assume - reasonably - that the military spends money to promote these roles to women for equality purposes, expends funds to open pathways for them, to accommodate women in what historically (and in most situations, currently) are overwhelmingly male - and all to what end?

Candidly, I have no skin in the game in keeping women out of combat. I don't care about the end result (whether they are/aren't) other than to the extent it makes it more difficult/dangerous for others to do their jobs. What I do care about is the broken mindset of placing these various priorities - ensuring pathways to women, DEI, trans sexual harassment training, etc. - alongside the fundamental mission of these organizations. I think it's pretty insane we're even talking about it, TBH.

Posted by jizzle6609
Houston
Member since Jul 2009
17767 posts
Posted on 12/11/24 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

3. Trump’s SECDEF pick wants to essentially remove women from the military, or at least make them second class citizens.


Hey, send women first and put them on the front line with women only in support and Im ok with this.

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