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re: Dominion lawsuits against Powell, Lindell and Rudy move ahead---this should be interesting
Posted on 8/12/21 at 1:48 pm to dafif
Posted on 8/12/21 at 1:48 pm to dafif
Yes I do.
They want the lawsuit thrown out because whatever statements they made were political speech and was not really true.
The other poster seems to think that these statements will be proven true through discovery. Why would a defendant need to use discovery after they made a truthful statement if they had the facts when they made it??
Powell herself is saying a spreadsheet she presented was hyperbole and no reasonable person would believe it and think it true information. People on the PT do. Just what is Powell going to uncover through discovery that will prove her defaming spreadsheet was actually true even though she being a reasonable person does not believe it to be now?
They want the lawsuit thrown out because whatever statements they made were political speech and was not really true.
The other poster seems to think that these statements will be proven true through discovery. Why would a defendant need to use discovery after they made a truthful statement if they had the facts when they made it??
Powell herself is saying a spreadsheet she presented was hyperbole and no reasonable person would believe it and think it true information. People on the PT do. Just what is Powell going to uncover through discovery that will prove her defaming spreadsheet was actually true even though she being a reasonable person does not believe it to be now?
1
Posted on 8/12/21 at 6:33 pm to I B Freeman
That is why you are ignorant of the legal system. I’ll help you out just this once with a hypothetical:
Let’s say there is a car accident and the accident happened 4 years ago and the statute of limitations is 3 years. In responding to a complaint you would not assert your liability defense and surrounding facts, you would first raise the defense of statute of limitations. Then a court will decide that first without regard to any other facts.
That was done here. The next step is responding to the allegations which will most likely be a legal denial and affirmative defenses. Next will be discovery.
BTW, it is at this point that the real legal issues will surface because I believe most machines have been wiped. At that point dominion will be in very big trouble
Let’s say there is a car accident and the accident happened 4 years ago and the statute of limitations is 3 years. In responding to a complaint you would not assert your liability defense and surrounding facts, you would first raise the defense of statute of limitations. Then a court will decide that first without regard to any other facts.
That was done here. The next step is responding to the allegations which will most likely be a legal denial and affirmative defenses. Next will be discovery.
BTW, it is at this point that the real legal issues will surface because I believe most machines have been wiped. At that point dominion will be in very big trouble
Posted on 8/12/21 at 6:49 pm to dafif
quote:
At that point dominion will be in very big trouble
Posted on 8/12/21 at 6:52 pm to boosiebadazz
Are you saying that if the machines were wiped dominion would not be in trouble?
Posted on 8/12/21 at 6:54 pm to I B Freeman
Ali Baba was a fortunate man. He only had to deal with 40 thieves.
Posted on 8/12/21 at 6:55 pm to dafif
If they complied with the pertinent laws of retention and transmission of records to the municipality, why would they be in trouble? Moreover, why would they be in trouble in a civil lawsuit they filed? Could it possibly lead to a jury finding against them- possibly. But is it going to be dispositive and lead to their defamation claims being tossed? No.
But there are state and federal laws and regulations around retention of election records but they apply to the municipalities themselves. Dominion is not the custodian of records. Do you have any cite requiring Dominion to retain records?
But there are state and federal laws and regulations around retention of election records but they apply to the municipalities themselves. Dominion is not the custodian of records. Do you have any cite requiring Dominion to retain records?
This post was edited on 8/12/21 at 7:04 pm
Posted on 8/12/21 at 7:12 pm to dafif
Ok in this defamation suit the defense lead off with a pleading basically admitting their claims were unfounded and cannot be substantiated.
So it seems to me they need to either
1) convince a jury their statements were so outrageous a reasonable person would not believe what they said and thus were not defamation.
2) convince a jury their statements were true and thus were not defamation.
I guess that opening pleading was smart--you are the legal expert.
So it seems to me they need to either
1) convince a jury their statements were so outrageous a reasonable person would not believe what they said and thus were not defamation.
2) convince a jury their statements were true and thus were not defamation.
I guess that opening pleading was smart--you are the legal expert.
This post was edited on 8/12/21 at 7:16 pm
Posted on 8/12/21 at 7:14 pm to I B Freeman
IBchinaFan never disappoints
Posted on 8/12/21 at 8:27 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
Let me get this straight. You expect the defense to introduce something during discovery to prove they were not lying YET their initial defense was "it does not matter if we were lying". Don't you think if they had the goods they would welcome the opportunity for trial instead of trying to stop it???
Given how the Democrat's and RINOS have fought against anyone looking into this sham, I would imagine that team Kraken had better come up with an alternative plan. If the goal is discovery, you would need to go to trial. Having the Democrat’s (Dominion?) think that they have already won would not be a bad strategy. It seems like it would allow them to go to trial as quickly as possible.
TLDR
frick China
This post was edited on 8/12/21 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 8/12/21 at 8:30 pm to I B Freeman
quote:
2) convince a jury their statements were true and thus were not defamation.
That depends. What will the evidence (assuming for the sake of argument that there is a smoking gun) say when introduced?
Posted on 8/12/21 at 9:02 pm to I B Freeman
Ahhh, again, you’re not understanding the legal process. Defendants do not have to prove anything in this case. Dominion has to prove:
1) that the claims were not outrageous (etc.), AND (not or)
2) that the claims were demonstrably false.
Without both, Dominion loses. Plaintiff’s burden is by a preponderance if the evidence. Long way before dominion can spike the football. Not to mention, that’s just liability. They’ll have to prove damages too. Which may or may not be possible as it doesn’t appear their contracts were terminated. Hell, didn’t Louisiana actually buy MORE dominion after the election..?
1) that the claims were not outrageous (etc.), AND (not or)
2) that the claims were demonstrably false.
Without both, Dominion loses. Plaintiff’s burden is by a preponderance if the evidence. Long way before dominion can spike the football. Not to mention, that’s just liability. They’ll have to prove damages too. Which may or may not be possible as it doesn’t appear their contracts were terminated. Hell, didn’t Louisiana actually buy MORE dominion after the election..?
Posted on 8/12/21 at 9:15 pm to interdesting
Wrong
This is a civil case. Dominion need simply to convince the jury they were defamed.
They will likely be seeking non economic damages too like damage to their reputation ect.
This is a civil case. Dominion need simply to convince the jury they were defamed.
They will likely be seeking non economic damages too like damage to their reputation ect.
This post was edited on 8/12/21 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 8/12/21 at 9:34 pm to interdesting
I'm trying to see if something correlates with this lawsuit. I know jack shite about law, so it may not be related.
Let's pretend that these PCAPs that Lindell was alleging he had going into this symposium are real. Yeah, I know, but let's pretend. The symposium concluded today and he didn't publicly release them. But the ruling on the defamation suite came out during the symposium. Could the release of the PCAPs (if they really exist) be related to the defamation case? Did Lindell not release them because of the ruling? Or could the announcement of the release of the PCAPS at the symposium have forced the judge to rule the way he did (maybe to keep them from being released)?
Let's pretend that these PCAPs that Lindell was alleging he had going into this symposium are real. Yeah, I know, but let's pretend. The symposium concluded today and he didn't publicly release them. But the ruling on the defamation suite came out during the symposium. Could the release of the PCAPs (if they really exist) be related to the defamation case? Did Lindell not release them because of the ruling? Or could the announcement of the release of the PCAPS at the symposium have forced the judge to rule the way he did (maybe to keep them from being released)?
Posted on 8/12/21 at 9:59 pm to dehsloot
Anything is possible, but I’d opine that it’s unlikely and would be improper. On the court side, the judge should only be ruling on the motions and not based on outside current events. He should assume that everything dominion states is true, and then see if the law allows recovery. Usually defendants are only successful if the plaintiffs forgot to plead something (e.g.there was actual harm); it’s not covered by law (e.g. just pleading they are mean); there is an overwhelming defense (e.g. a court already ruled on the subject). Thus, the judge can assume the statement was false, was published; plaintiff was harmed etc as long as they claim it in their complaint
Likewise, I can’t see any strategic impact to Lindell not releasing the packets. Plaintiff would likely request them in discovery regardless. Lindell would likely have to turn them over. The only way there could be any strategy is if Lindell didn’t want something in the public record. He might be able to bootstrap an argument that the information should be subject to a protective order (which could be undermined if he released part of it). Nevertheless, he’d still be turning them over to Dominion. He would need some type of privilege (I.e work product of his attorney) to not turn it over. It’s possible that Prof Dershowitz has some novel first amendment argument to make, but I don’t see it at present. Any such argument would seem to go to source rather than content
Likewise, I can’t see any strategic impact to Lindell not releasing the packets. Plaintiff would likely request them in discovery regardless. Lindell would likely have to turn them over. The only way there could be any strategy is if Lindell didn’t want something in the public record. He might be able to bootstrap an argument that the information should be subject to a protective order (which could be undermined if he released part of it). Nevertheless, he’d still be turning them over to Dominion. He would need some type of privilege (I.e work product of his attorney) to not turn it over. It’s possible that Prof Dershowitz has some novel first amendment argument to make, but I don’t see it at present. Any such argument would seem to go to source rather than content
This post was edited on 8/12/21 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 8/12/21 at 10:02 pm to I B Freeman
I hope your shitty trinket store in Tangi goes belly up
Posted on 8/12/21 at 10:13 pm to dukkbill
Thanks for the honest answer. The overlapping of the ruling and the release of potential damaging data to the plaintiff doesn't seem coincidental. I just wasn't sure what advantage either way would be with the ruling coming down right at the time some important data related to the case was about to go public. If the PCAPS are real and they show foreign interference that would be absolute proof for the defense.
Posted on 8/12/21 at 10:17 pm to dukkbill
quote:
possible that Prof Dershowitz has some novel first amendment argument to make, but I don’t see it at present. Any such argument would seem to go to source rather than content
The first amendment protects you from the government. It doesn't allow you to say whatever you without any consequence. The Facebook Twitter stuff or whatever , i agree gov shouldn't be reaching out to censor people. But this is about verifiably false claims mike is making
Posted on 8/13/21 at 2:54 am to I B Freeman
Again. Swing and a miss. Keep trying. You might get it one day. Hope springs eternal.
As for this case, we’ll see what happens.
As for this case, we’ll see what happens.
Posted on 8/13/21 at 4:22 am to dukkbill
quote:
As a preliminary matter, a reasonable juror could conclude that the existence of a vast international conspiracy that is ignored by the government but proven by a spreadsheet on an internet blog is so inherently improbable that only a reckless man would believe it
Gosh. When they put it this way, it makes the new Republican dogma, required to be anything but a RINO seem detached from reality. And this is the position Sydney Powell is actually taking in court.
Seems like republicans love to lie to each other.
Posted on 8/13/21 at 4:32 am to dafif
quote:
BTW, it is at this point that the real legal issues will surface because I believe most machines have been wiped. At that point dominion will be in very big trouble
Not really. Dominion has the fact that every local election official in every county and parish, and every state election official (Secretary of State) in every state in the entire United States certified that this was a free, fair and accurate election. That’s where Dominion starts.
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