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re: Does this align with being pro-life? Louisiana refuses summer meal assistance for kids
Posted on 1/13/24 at 2:00 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 1/13/24 at 2:00 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Does this align with being pro-life? Louisiana refuses summer meal assistance for kids
by 4cubbies
Damn, that is a stupid post, even for you.
0
Posted on 1/13/24 at 2:02 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I see a girl in the night
With a baby in her hand,
Under an old street light,
Near a garbage can.
Now she put the kid away and she's gone to get a hit.
She hates her life and what she's done to it.
There's one more kid that'll never go to school,
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool.
People are murdered, abused and violated constantly. That doesn't mean human dignity doesn't exist.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 2:04 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Its earned or given, youre not entitled to dignity.
its innate. everyone possesses it. if you choose not to respect it, that's your failure, not anyone else's.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 2:10 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
If you're interested in expanding your understanding of human dignity, philosophers have been exploring the concept since forever. I pulled this following excerpt from a paper I wrote that might be helpful.
In the late 18th century, philosopher Immanuel Kant introduced a theory of justice called “the categorical imperative” in his philosophical work titled "Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals." Kant describes the categorical imperative as mankind’s unconditional obligation to uphold the dignity of all other men; he defines it as “Act only on that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.” The necessity to approach actions using the ethical framework of the categorical imperative is due to rational beings possessing an intrinsic worth, which Kant calls dignity. The categorical imperative prompts individuals to assess the morality of their actions by evaluating whether the tenet guiding their behavior could serve as a universal principle of behavior that promotes and respects human dignity when applied universally. Instead of treating individuals as means to an end, the categorical imperative urges individuals to treat others as ends in themselves.
Thomas Aquinas also wrote about human dignity at length.
This post was edited on 1/13/24 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 1/13/24 at 2:21 pm to 4cubbies
quote:What a terrible example, even if it were true.
My friend recently gave birth to her son whose brain developed outside of his skull in utero.
However, everyone here knows that your “example” never actually happened.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 2:24 pm to GusAU
quote:
What a terrible example, even if it were true.
I wish it weren’t true. I can’t even imagine going through that. Absolutely tragic from every angle.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 3:40 pm to 4cubbies
quote:But it does mean dignity is not universal. Right?
People are murdered, abused and violated constantly. That doesn't mean human dignity doesn't exist.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 3:50 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Your OP is about protecting kids. Should the government have a role in that?
The job of the government is to micro-manage mothers in the name of being “pro-life”
quote:Encephalocele?
Forcing them to deliver every single baby conceived.
My friend recently gave birth to her son whose brain developed outside of his skull in utero.
Sounds horrible, but not necessarily letal nowadays FWIW. The devil is in the details.
Did she want to abort, but was refused in her state? What was the postnatal prognosis? Which state? What was the law at play?
Posted on 1/13/24 at 3:51 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
We're born with dignity. Everyone has it and it cannot be taken away.
It's can't be taken but it's often given.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 4:06 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
But it does mean dignity is not universal. Right?
It's universal. Every single person possesses inherent worth, regardless of if others respect that worth.
If every human didn't posses dignity, murder wouldn't be illegal. We wouldn't care if strangers were killed.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 4:07 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Every single person possesses inherent worth,
What is Hilter’s inherent worth?
Charles Manson?
Ted Bundy?
The muzzies that flew planes into the WTC?
Posted on 1/13/24 at 4:24 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I'm not sure. Ideally? No. Ideally, society would take care of social problems without intervention from government.
Your OP is about protecting kids. Should the government have a role in that?
I recently became acquainted with a young lady from Jerusalem. There's no police or courts there, she said. She said that tribes (families) solve disputes themselves. She considers herself Palestinian so there may be police for Israelis that don't interfere with non-citizens, I'm not sure. But it would be great if Americans could also solve disputes without interference from police and courts. I think our moral decay is too advanced for that ever becoming a possibility, though.
quote:Her son, Isaac, lived for around a half hour, iirc.
Sounds horrible, but not necessarily letal nowadays FWIW. The devil is in the details.
quote:She lives in Louisiana so abortion was never considered. I doubt she would have aborted, anyway. They knew fairly early on in her pregnancy what the outcome would be. I can't imagine carrying a child you knew would not survive. Pregnancy is supposed to be full of wonder, anticipation and joy. She was robbed of so much. She has a son already, who has SMA. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that but's brutal. He's been wheelchair bound ever since he was big enough to fit in a wheelchair. I really don't know how she does it.
Did she want to abort, but was refused in her state? What was the postnatal prognosis? Which state? What was the law at play?
Back on topic, I would understand why a mother would choose to abort in that situation. I do think it's cruel to remove that option with those circumstances.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 4:25 pm to roadGator
quote:
What is Hilter’s inherent worth?
Charles Manson?
Ted Bundy?
The muzzies that flew planes into the WTC?
Human dignity isn't conditional. It's inherent.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 4:25 pm to 4cubbies
That’s your opinion. Kant was a dreamer.
I imagine someone like you would treat those animals with dignity.
Fortunately, most people would treat them like the animals they are.
And to the best of my recollection. Kant used intrinsic. Not inherent.
I imagine someone like you would treat those animals with dignity.
Fortunately, most people would treat them like the animals they are.
And to the best of my recollection. Kant used intrinsic. Not inherent.
This post was edited on 1/13/24 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 1/13/24 at 5:00 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Re: "I'm not sure" ... Jerusalem District Police, and The District Court of Jerusalem
I recently became acquainted with a young lady from Jerusalem. There's no police or courts there, she said. She said that tribes (families) solve disputes themselves. ... there may be police for Israelis that don't interfere with non-citizens, I'm not sure.
quote:Gosh, that's awful.
She lives in Louisiana so abortion was never considered. I doubt she would have aborted, anyway. They knew fairly early on in her pregnancy what the outcome would be. I can't imagine carrying a child you knew would not survive. Pregnancy is supposed to be full of wonder, anticipation and joy. She was robbed of so much. She has a son already, who has SMA. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that but's brutal. He's been wheelchair bound ever since he was big enough to fit in a wheelchair. I really don't know how she does it.
SMA can be associated with neural tube defects (?perhaps? like her 2nd pregnancy?), but the actual connection is not clear. Nonetheless, your friend should obviously go the genetic testing route (maybe with associated IVF) which I'm sure she's been told.
quote:Right. Depends on the legal wording obviously, and I agree with your sentiment. However, I'm not sure the option is actually removed ... e.g., in circumstances of severe, prognostically lethal encephalocele.
Back on topic, I would understand why a mother would choose to abort in that situation. I do think it's cruel to remove that option with those circumstances.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 5:18 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Interesting premise.
Human dignity isn't conditional. It's inherent.
Dignity - the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect.
---
So how does one define "human dignity" in unconditional terms?
E.g., In the case of Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky (WARNING: DO NOT CLICK the link on a weak stomach)
This post was edited on 1/13/24 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 1/13/24 at 5:35 pm to Powerman
quote:
You're likely more dependent on government services than you like to admit. Do you consider yourself a beneficiary of slave labor?
Like? I'm sure you believe the government taxing the frick out of my business so it can then "build" roads "for me" is some kind of "government service?" Or employing law enforcement officers who will gun me down if I don't pay said taxes as a "government service?" How about the massive amounts of property tax I pay that go towards government schools my child will never step foot in? Please enlighten me of these "government services" I should be so thankful about my benevolent overlords providing.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 5:36 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Re: "I'm not sure" ... Jerusalem District Police, and The District Court of Jerusalem
That's right, she told me about the checkpoints that Palestinians have to pass through. It makes sense they would be manned by police officers.
This is not commentary on the war in Israel, but I've been learning about her experience growing up and living in occupied Jerusalem since before the war broke out and its blown me away. It's very reminiscent of Jim Crow.
She said the police and courts don't get involved in disputes between tribes. She shared this before the war broke out. I don't think she has any reason to make that up. She framed it as a positive thing.
quote:
SMA can be associated with neural tube defects (?perhaps? like her 2nd pregnancy?), but the actual connection is not clear.
She and her son's father were both recessive carriers of the SMA gene is how she explained it to me. If both parents are carriers, there is a 25% chance the child they produce will have SMA. (She told me this information like 12 years ago, so it may have gotten muddy since then).
quote:
Nonetheless, your friend should obviously go the genetic testing route (maybe with associated IVF) which I'm sure she's been told.
quote:
I'm not sure the option is actually removed ... e.g., in circumstances of severe, prognostically lethal encephalocele.
The exceptions are very limited in Louisiana and include:
To save the pregnant person's life
To prevent serious risk to the pregnant person's physical health
If the fetus is not expected to survive the pregnancy.
Her pregnancy wouldn't have qualified for an exception. Providers face fines of $200,000 and up to 15 years in jail if they are found to have performed an abortion that doesn't meet the exceptions.
This post was edited on 1/13/24 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 1/13/24 at 5:40 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
My logic is that it isn’t logical to feign concern for unborn babies while also refusing money allocated to support children.
You are the only one who is comfortable with parents not feeding their kids.
Posted on 1/13/24 at 5:45 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
So how does one define "human dignity" in unconditional terms?
E.g., In the case of Steven Hayes and Joshua Komisarjevsky (WARNING: DO NOT CLICK the link on a weak stomach)
I'm not clicking this, but I assume these are monsters who committed horrific acts. I don't support capital punishment. It's obviously not popular but every human possesses inherent worth because we were made in the image and likeness of God. It's not contingent on the kind of person someone is.
If human dignity isn't inherent, why would murder be universally considered wrong? Shouldn't it depend on who was murdered to determine whether or not its ok?
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