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Message
re: Does anyone understand why having the National Guard helping defeat crime is a bad thing?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This is a discussion about the national guard defeating crime, though, and you admitted they had nothing to do with the nuclear family.
And you wondered what the costs of doing that would be. My opinion is that let's swing the pendulum back the other way since the damage already done is way worse than sending in the guard right now. So let's stop the damage from getting worse and then maybe have a discussion about the social / law / long term costs of community protection and authoritarianism later once the bleeding has slowed.
Maybe I just didn't make that clear. All good in the hood.
1
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:28 am to ShoeBang
quote:
So let's stop the damage from getting worse
Is it getting worse, though?
Compared to when?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:30 am to Gorilla Ball
Another very interesting, and enlightening, thread.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
quote: Chicago has a massive crime/shooting issue. The Mayor and Governor insist there isn’t an issue, the residents say otherwise. There were 30 shootings in Chicago this past weekend, a five year old was killed. Murder is going down in Chicago quote: Johnson has touted "significant reductions" in crime and violence over the past two years. According to the most recent year-to-date statistics, homicides dropped 31%, while shootings were down 37.4%. Total violent crime, meanwhile, declined 21.6% over the past year. And how were things in 2024? quote: In an article posted on the White House website entitled "Yes, Chicago Has a Crime Problem — Just Ask its Residents," the authors referenced data that revealed Chicago ended 2024 with 573 murders, the highest of any U.S. city. While the number is accurate, there was no mention that Chicago saw its lowest number of homicides since 2019
What concrete action did the Mayor implement to make “crime drop” in Chicago?
Not report crime? Not respond to people who were calling and reporting crime? Or did he increase policing, increase arrests, getting criminals off of the street?
Makes sense, the best way to make your crime numbers drop is to just not report the crime.
Your contention is the people are lying, that they aren’t being victimized? Those 573 people murdered last year are just a mirage?
That’s not 573 people shot, that’s 573 people murdered, the majority with handguns. Medicine has improved the survival rate of gunshot victims, what do you think the multiplier is on numbers of people shot who survived? 4X? 10X?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:34 am to SlowFlowPro
So.....you reveal you are both.
Got it.
I'll ignore you from here on out.
Enjoy!
Got it.
I'll ignore you from here on out.
Enjoy!
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:37 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
The only reason is "Trump bad".
No. The only reason is that when you give the Federal government power it will NEVER give it back.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:39 am to Gorilla Ball
Watching liberals act like DC was a utopia with zero crime is pretty funny
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:42 am to wallowinit
quote:
So.....you reveal you are both.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:43 am to TigersSEC2010
quote:
Watching liberals act like DC was a utopia with zero crime
Nobody is doing this
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:43 am to LegendInMyMind
quote:
No. The only reason is that when you give the Federal government power it will NEVER give it back.
Sure thing, Jan. The National Guard operating DC as a police state for the rest of time is a valid concern.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:44 am to riverdiver
quote:
What concrete action did the Mayor implement to make “crime drop” in Chicago?
The problem that y'all have is thinking that government does things with real results, which is the thinking of leftists.
Sometimes there are things beyond government that affect things like crime. Covid cause a spike in crime recently and now it is subsiding generally across America. Crime exploded in the mid-70s until about the mid-90s and then decreased severely from the mid-90s until the mid 2010s. There is not one thing that government did that caused either of these things
Posted on 8/26/25 at 11:57 am to Gorilla Ball
I can only give you my genuine thoughts, which many on here won't like. Because I've been told as much. They are multi-faceted, there isn't one reason.
Just like I do every time, I will start with the preface. I'm not a liberal. I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. If you don't want to believe that, I don't know what to tell you. The prospect of homeless people, criminals, illegals, and drug addicts getting taken off the streets appeals to me. I'd like to visit Chicago, but I know that it's risky to go there when the streets are so unclean. And I agree that it happens in largely democratic-run cities.
A lot of people here seem to believe that we are a unique nation and unique people. We aren't. Of course rolling in the NG to cities with high crime will reduce crime. But it comes at the cost of personal freedom, and it inches closer toward a police state. A police state that cleans up what you personally don't want to see is still a police state. And eventually, the people calling for the police state may be the ones in the line of fire. I'd imagine a lot of people here are barely a step up from what they consider blight and crime. I know that I am to a lot of people I interact with on a daily basis. I won't be the last to be rounded up should I be deemed violating some law that the federal government deems to be reprehensible. Right now it's to clean up the streets in a way everyone agrees needs to happen. If this is proof of concept, the next step after the majority of the population has rationalized it, will be to take the next rung. And then rationalization. "Well, they shouldn't be doing that". And then the next rung.
And the issue is that these freedoms will slowly be rationalized because of a lack of critical thought. I've always thought the keep the population dumb rhetoric was overblown. I'm watching it happen. And it's frustrating because a lot of folks, many on this board, don't have the capability to step back, recognize that they are not special, and that they too are having their rights stripped from them the same way it starts in police states all across the globe.
This has happened over and over throughout history. The only thing that can stop it is a fight from the judiciary, the same judiciary that Trump is very clearly trying to blend with the executive. It's really frustrating to see this and even more frustrating to see this board, hook line and sinker, repeat the same talking points as if you've been given an agenda. I don't listen to much, I read the most unbiased news sources I can every morning. Things with as few adjectives as possible. And then all of a sudden those same news stories I've read come out regurgitated with adjectives, and everyone who is a republican all of a sudden has the same vocabulary. And it's fricking weird. It scares the shite out of me. Because I grew up with these people, many of whom I used to look up to for guidance, and it's as if they've been taken by someone.
Personally, I think this is headed down a really dark path that does not have to do with democrat or republican. There is no Democrat or Republican to this administration and I believe that. I think you have a president that wants to leave a legacy, and he has chosen that he will try to do what have so many have failed to do. And I think he will fail, but I think there's going to be a shite ton of pain until we can run back all of the short-sighted firings and replacements that have occurred.
I think dude is going to try to run again in 2028, and he's doing that with creating fear in people right now. He is going to do it "by the book". The issue is that he will have changed the book so much that only a few are going to see what has happened. And when they speak up, they will be taken away on a technicality that will be upheld by a judiciary backed by the guy himself. And the terms will be stripped away, and he will "legally" be President. And really the worst part is that I think a lot of you will have been brainwashed into thinking that he's saved our country, while everyone else who dissents is terrified to speak up.
Just like I do every time, I will start with the preface. I'm not a liberal. I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. If you don't want to believe that, I don't know what to tell you. The prospect of homeless people, criminals, illegals, and drug addicts getting taken off the streets appeals to me. I'd like to visit Chicago, but I know that it's risky to go there when the streets are so unclean. And I agree that it happens in largely democratic-run cities.
A lot of people here seem to believe that we are a unique nation and unique people. We aren't. Of course rolling in the NG to cities with high crime will reduce crime. But it comes at the cost of personal freedom, and it inches closer toward a police state. A police state that cleans up what you personally don't want to see is still a police state. And eventually, the people calling for the police state may be the ones in the line of fire. I'd imagine a lot of people here are barely a step up from what they consider blight and crime. I know that I am to a lot of people I interact with on a daily basis. I won't be the last to be rounded up should I be deemed violating some law that the federal government deems to be reprehensible. Right now it's to clean up the streets in a way everyone agrees needs to happen. If this is proof of concept, the next step after the majority of the population has rationalized it, will be to take the next rung. And then rationalization. "Well, they shouldn't be doing that". And then the next rung.
And the issue is that these freedoms will slowly be rationalized because of a lack of critical thought. I've always thought the keep the population dumb rhetoric was overblown. I'm watching it happen. And it's frustrating because a lot of folks, many on this board, don't have the capability to step back, recognize that they are not special, and that they too are having their rights stripped from them the same way it starts in police states all across the globe.
This has happened over and over throughout history. The only thing that can stop it is a fight from the judiciary, the same judiciary that Trump is very clearly trying to blend with the executive. It's really frustrating to see this and even more frustrating to see this board, hook line and sinker, repeat the same talking points as if you've been given an agenda. I don't listen to much, I read the most unbiased news sources I can every morning. Things with as few adjectives as possible. And then all of a sudden those same news stories I've read come out regurgitated with adjectives, and everyone who is a republican all of a sudden has the same vocabulary. And it's fricking weird. It scares the shite out of me. Because I grew up with these people, many of whom I used to look up to for guidance, and it's as if they've been taken by someone.
Personally, I think this is headed down a really dark path that does not have to do with democrat or republican. There is no Democrat or Republican to this administration and I believe that. I think you have a president that wants to leave a legacy, and he has chosen that he will try to do what have so many have failed to do. And I think he will fail, but I think there's going to be a shite ton of pain until we can run back all of the short-sighted firings and replacements that have occurred.
I think dude is going to try to run again in 2028, and he's doing that with creating fear in people right now. He is going to do it "by the book". The issue is that he will have changed the book so much that only a few are going to see what has happened. And when they speak up, they will be taken away on a technicality that will be upheld by a judiciary backed by the guy himself. And the terms will be stripped away, and he will "legally" be President. And really the worst part is that I think a lot of you will have been brainwashed into thinking that he's saved our country, while everyone else who dissents is terrified to speak up.
This post was edited on 8/26/25 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 8/26/25 at 12:24 pm to Vacherie Saint
quote:
Vacherie Saint
Found a moron.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 12:28 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Nobody is doing this
They are absolutely acting like it doesn't need any improvement, despite D.C. being in the nation's worst five cities for murder rate along with St. Louis, Birmingham, Baltimore, and Memphis.
Remember, these are the people who constantly whine about reducing gun deaths.
Well...
Posted on 8/26/25 at 12:31 pm to Odysseus32
quote:
I can only give you my genuine thoughts, which many on here won't like. Because I've been told as much. They are multi-faceted, there isn't one reason.
Just like I do every time, I will start with the preface. I'm not a liberal. I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. If you don't want to believe that, I don't know what to tell you. The prospect of homeless people, criminals, illegals, and drug addicts getting taken off the streets appeals to me. I'd like to visit Chicago, but I know that it's risky to go there when the streets are so unclean. And I agree that it happens in largely democratic-run cities.
A lot of people here seem to believe that we are a unique nation and unique people. We aren't. Of course rolling in the NG to cities with high crime will reduce crime. But it comes at the cost of personal freedom, and it inches closer toward a police state. A police state that cleans up what you personally don't want to see is still a police state. And eventually, the people calling for the police state may be the ones in the line of fire. I'd imagine a lot of people here are barely a step up from what they consider blight and crime. I know that I am to a lot of people I interact with on a daily basis. I won't be the last to be rounded up should I be deemed violating some law that the federal government deems to be reprehensible. Right now it's to clean up the streets in a way everyone agrees needs to happen. If this is proof of concept, the next step after the majority of the population has rationalized it, will be to take the next rung. And then rationalization. "Well, they shouldn't be doing that". And then the next rung.
And the issue is that these freedoms will slowly be rationalized because of a lack of critical thought. I've always thought the keep the population dumb rhetoric was overblown. I'm watching it happen. And it's frustrating because a lot of folks, many on this board, don't have the capability to step back, recognize that they are not special, and that they too are having their rights stripped from them the same way it starts in police states all across the globe.
This has happened over and over throughout history. The only thing that can stop it is a fight from the judiciary, the same judiciary that Trump is very clearly trying to blend with the executive. It's really frustrating to see this and even more frustrating to see this board, hook line and sinker, repeat the same talking points as if you've been given an agenda. I don't listen to much, I read the most unbiased news sources I can every morning. Things with as few adjectives as possible. And then all of a sudden those same news stories I've read come out regurgitated with adjectives, and everyone who is a republican all of a sudden has the same vocabulary. And it's fricking weird. It scares the shite out of me. Because I grew up with these people, many of whom I used to look up to for guidance, and it's as if they've been taken by someone.
Personally, I think this is headed down a really dark path that does not have to do with democrat or republican. There is no Democrat or Republican to this administration and I believe that. I think you have a president that wants to leave a legacy, and he has chosen that he will try to do what have so many have failed to do. And I think he will fail, but I think there's going to be a shite ton of pain until we can run back all of the short-sighted firings and replacements that have occurred.
I think dude is going to try to run again in 2028, and he's doing that with creating fear in people right now. He is going to do it "by the book". The issue is that he will have changed the book so much that only a few are going to see what has happened. And when they speak up, they will be taken away on a technicality that will be upheld by a judiciary backed by the guy himself. And the terms will be stripped away, and he will "legally" be President. And really the worst part is that I think a lot of you will have been brainwashed into thinking that he's saved our country, while everyone else who dissents is terrified to speak up.
I'll buy some of that, but I do not buy anything you said about Trump trying to blend the judiciary into the Executive branch, and I definitely do not buy that the SCOTUS would let him run again.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 12:36 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
I'll buy some of that, but I do not buy anything you said about Trump trying to blend the judiciary into the Executive branch, and I definitely do not buy that the SCOTUS would let him run again.
I'm hoping that this is the case. I'm not fearful of anything yet, because the things that I see that he does by way of EO that should be fought back against usually are.
That entire novel I wrote, my hope is that in 5 years I come back here and go "what a fricking loon I was".
Posted on 8/26/25 at 12:37 pm to jp4lsu
quote:
it will just go back to being crime ridden city when they leave. So I don't know if it accomplishes much, besides setting a dangerous precedent for future presidents to send in the NG against a group they don't like in a state.
Valid point regarding future presidents; however, it does show that the GOP wants to make cities with minority majorities safer and that they care. If that results in even more of a switch to the GOP by blacks...who knows.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 12:39 pm to AUauditor
quote:
Valid point regarding future presidents; however, it does show that the GOP wants to make cities with minority majorities safer and that they care. If that results in even more of a switch to the GOP by blacks...who knows.
Then why aren’t there guardsmen patrolling the streets of Houston, Baton Rouge, Jackson MS, and a thousand other crime ridden cities in red states where the governors can activate the NG at their leisure to stop crime?
Posted on 8/26/25 at 12:42 pm to HeadCall
quote:
Then why aren’t there guardsmen patrolling the streets of Houston, Baton Rouge, Jackson MS, and a thousand other crime ridden cities in red states where the governors can activate the NG at their leisure to stop crime?
You may see some of that before this is over.
They obviously can't tend all of them b/c there aren't enough guardsman, but might you see some governors jumping on this? I think you might.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 1:23 pm to ChatGPT of LA
quote:Just seeking clarity on your suggestion. Do you mean stationing them in local cities during mobilizations or full time? I ask because your phrasing ("instead of those once monthly training deals") sounds like you might be asking "why not convert them to full-time active duty", which there are several reasons not to do that.
instead of those once monthly training deals, why not just station them in a local city as backup to those police depths?
Or do you mean station them at police stations in lieu of monthly training? That's more feasible, but training still needs to happen. Soldiers have to stay qualified on their weapons and MOS at minimum. I'm not familiar with guard contracts and if they specifically hard-cap training at "one weekend a month, two weeks a year", but if so they'd likely have to find some way around that to add a couple more days for training every month.
*although I've heard plenty of claims about drill weekends being beer and barbecue with a PT test or range thrown in.
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