re: Do you believe that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation?

quote:

---

Oh, so they WANTED state-sponsored religion then? Damn, you'd think they would have clarified that in the very first one of the bill of rights, but they chose not to. In fact, they stated the exact opposite of that.

---

Nuance always escapes those who pretend to possess it.

quote:

---

Do you find it the least bit troublesome that the people who actually wrote those words don't interpret them in any way close to the way in which you do?

---

Has any document/book ever written been interpreted as originally written or has any document/book been interpreted the same over time? Consider the bible.

quote:

---

ut when you form a country and open your arms to all-comers, you're going to end up with very diverse religious beliefs at some point. And when that happens, and a governmental unit or building is perceived to adopt one religion by use of religious symbols or prayers, there is going to be backlash and there is going to be requests for the article to be interpreted.

---

That would imply this country was founded on christian principles.......and I don't think the founding fathers ever expected this country to have such a large Muslim segment or even a large segment of atheist.

quote:

---

Benjamin Franklin

SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION; DIPLOMAT; PRINTER; SCIENTIST; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.29
The body of Benjamin Franklin, printer, like the cover of an old book, its contents torn out and stripped of its lettering and guilding, lies here, food for worms. Yet the work itself shall not be lost; for it will, as he believed, appear once more in a new and more beatiful edition, corrected and amended by the Author.30(FRANKLIN’S EULOGY THAT HE WROTE FOR HIMSELF)

---

Franklin isn't a Deist because he... praised the teachings of Jesus? Because he believed in an unspecified afterlife? And these are inconsistent with Deism because...?

I suppose there's no way to really know the truth. I mean it's not like the guy published an outrageously famous autobiography in which he literally said he was a Deist.

quote:

---

I was scarce 15 when, after doubting by turns of several Points as I found them disputed in the different Books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some Books against Deism fell into my Hands; they were said to be the Substance of Sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an Effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them: For the Arguments of the Deists which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much Stronger than the Refutations. In short I soon became a thorough Deist.

---

I'm sure the rest of CHRISTIAN_FOUNDING_FATHERS.TXT is of similar rigor.

quote:

---

Is the bible just a book to Christians?

---

Christianity/Islam/Any Religion can be just about anything. This is the way it's been throughout history. One can read it and choose to live a life of poverty and charity. One can read it and choose to live a life of violence and oppression. I happen to think some religions are inherently more conducive to violence than others, but that's beside the point.

quote:

---

Why has it Christianity changed so much over time?

---

Are you really saying that law should be open to as much interpretation as religions currently are? You are comparing contemporary national law to ancient worldwide religious text. What on earth? Under this ideal, any law can mean literally anything.

quote:

---

Has any document/book ever written been interpreted as originally written or has any document/book been interpreted the same over time? Consider the bible.

---

Sure it changes. But then we have to stop pretending that's the way it was meant to be and admit it's the way some people want it to be. And that cedes the moral high ground the separation of church and state evangelists think they occupy.

quote:

---

In God we trust

---

Adopted as the official motto in 1956.

quote:

---

Was having an interesting conversation about this with someone on Facebook. I tried to explain to her that most of the founding fathers were Deists and not Christians. She obviously did not believe me even after I provided quotes from several of the founding fathers. What are your thoughts on this?

---

Even if every last one of the founding fathers was a devout Christian it would still not mean that it was founded as a Christian nation. The faith of the founding fathers was irrelevant to them as the country was founded on freedom of religion. If the intent was for the country to be founded as a Christian nation then freedom of religion wouldn't have been allowed.

/thread

quote:

---

Law and it's interpretation reflect the culture. Over time as the culture changes so does the law. It's just a fact of life.

---

I agree completely. It should be that way. But it's not that way. Does the culture want all religious artifacts removed? Does the culture want gay marriage? Does the culture want a giant welfare class? Does the culture want the PATRIOT Act?

Tons of things in our country exist because certain people imposed law on an unwilling culture.