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re: Do socialists think that billionaires stole their money?
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:34 am to Ralph_Wiggum
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:34 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
They should have paid the people whose labor they used to get rich more. A lot more. It's that simple. Labor is the source of wealth. We have no problem with people having nice things. But a lot more people should profit from their labor
So the billionaires got rich off of slaves that they forced to work for them ? You people are crazy. You act like these business will put you in jail if you do their work while you support the government forcing people to give them money or go to jail .
1
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:35 am to tjv305
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:38 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
They should have paid the people whose labor they used to get rich more. A lot more. It's that simple. Labor is the source of wealth. We have no problem with people having nice things. But a lot more people should profit from their labor.
You have obviously never owned a business.
People are paid on the value they bring to the workplace, along with how specialized their knowledge or service is.
I own several companies. I have some high wage earners and some that are $10/hr. The high wage earners have advanced education, are some of the best at what they do and thus are paid accordingly. Many have been with me for decades.
The $10/hr employees are told day one, if you are still in this position in a year, you are letting yourself down. These positions require the most basic of skills and should only be used as a stepping stone. Turnover is high for these positions, as they should be, and the companies never miss a beat.
What I love, is that many of my upper management personnel started out at these positions and through hard work, talent and development of their skills, they have made themselves valuable and thus their compensation has greatly increased.
For myself, I took and take all the risks. I started with nothing and lived a meager life as I built these companies. Over the years, I have invested millions of dollars to make the companies exist. At the same time, my companies provide jobs for countless families. Therefore, I get to reap the benefits of the growth and profits.
Isn't this a great system!? The more value I bring to my customers, clients and employees, the more I am rewarded. Shouldn't I be rewarded? Or am some sort of arse that got rich off the backs of others?
This system has proven to be the best system in the history of mankind. All others are utter failures.
Tell me what other system allows for so many to be wealthy by the worlds standards?
While their are exceptions to every rule, the vast majority of Billionaires have created something of immense value for the world and their investments create hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs. But idiots like Bernie think they are evil and that they can do a better job with their money. Anyone that buys this garbage lives in a fairy tale world.
Those that criticize Billionaires just because they are wealthy are nothing but jealous losers.
tl:dr Ralph is an idiot.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:39 am to HempHead
quote:
I'm going to get roasted after this, but the real solution to that (and a lot of gripes with capitalism) is the elimination of limited liability. It would drastically reduce the scale of all businesses and their influence.
I'll add to that. Corporate structure created unbridled greed that resulted in the loss of middle american mfg jobs. Since share price was the only goal, it made folks abandon any pretense of civic duty. In fact it encouraged it.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:41 am to bstew3006
quote:
It's mostly jealousy.
Sure. But who do you respect more. The person that built the wealth or the person that inherited it?
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:42 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
They should have paid the people whose labor they used to get rich more. A lot more. It's that simple. Labor is the source of wealth. We have no problem with people having nice things. But a lot more people should profit from their labor.
Simple people say simple things.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:44 am to Powerman
quote:
The person that built the wealth or the person that inherited it?
What does that matter? I have worked and invested and done things for the benefit of my family and specifically for my children. They do not have a Walton or Hilton inheritance waiting for them, but they will have a substantial inheritance which was built off of what I have managed to put together in my life...
Does the fruit I produced over my life magically die and go away upon my death?
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:46 am to WorkinDawg
The basic logic is that legitimate personal wealth accumulation should only be derived from labor. Interest on capital and rent on land are seen as exploitation and theft, respectively.
Many billionaires made their money off of rents. For example, real estate monguls or Middle Eastern royal families. Yes, I believe they stole society's wealth. Billionaires who made their money from capital accumulation? No, they didn't steal it. They were able to efficiently extract the value of others' labor. What you think of that depends on your philosophy and economic ideology.
Many billionaires made their money off of rents. For example, real estate monguls or Middle Eastern royal families. Yes, I believe they stole society's wealth. Billionaires who made their money from capital accumulation? No, they didn't steal it. They were able to efficiently extract the value of others' labor. What you think of that depends on your philosophy and economic ideology.
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 8:47 am
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:47 am to Powerman
quote:
Sure. But who do you respect more. The person that built the wealth or the person that inherited it?
I'll always respect the individual that BUILT it. But I'm not going to knock the individual that inherited it. Especially if that individual builds off of it. Now, if that person just collects a check and parties, etc. then I have no respect, but not going to knock them for being born into it.
Prime example
Big Dick Don, got a $1MM loan from daddy. How many people can say that? One could say, he inherited wealth, so I don't respect him. But look what he did!
Thing is, mega successful entrepreneurs work their arse off, but have a ton of individuals go out of their way to help and they also have a shite ton of LUCK.
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 8:50 am
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:48 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Interest on capital and rent on land are seen as exploitation and theft,
So, someone that owns land, purchased that land as an investment should expect no return from that investment?
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:48 am to The Maj
According to socialists/communists like Bernie and Ralph_Wiggum, it was never your money to begin with.
The government was just loaning it to you.
I also love how not one of these Berniebots took part in the thread about the NHS falling apart to the point where they trying to teach nurses how to perform surgeries.
Their ideology fails everywhere they apply it...but they’ll get it right this time.
The government was just loaning it to you.
I also love how not one of these Berniebots took part in the thread about the NHS falling apart to the point where they trying to teach nurses how to perform surgeries.
Their ideology fails everywhere they apply it...but they’ll get it right this time.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:49 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
They should have paid the people whose labor they used to get rich more. A lot more.
Those people freely engaged in employment for the salaries they made.
quote:
We have no problem with people having nice things
What you have or don’t have a problem with isn’t important. You are irrelevant.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:50 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
They should have paid the people whose labor they used to get rich more. A lot more. It's that simple.
How much more? Please define "more" in monetary terms. Everyone gets paid more? What about the workers, do they have to pay the business owner because he gave them a living?
Will the workers be responsible for debts owed by the "billionaire" if the business faulters? How much of that "more money" are they now on the hook for, if that business fails?
How much responsibility did the workers who were not employed by the billionaire yet, have in the billionaires startup costs?
Your premise is the height of stupidity. The workers did not take any financial or personal risks in starting up the company the billionaire owns. The business owner did.
quote:
Labor is the source of wealth. We have no problem with people having nice things. But a lot more people should profit from their labor.
How much more? Define an amount, a percentage, something. You can't just say, "workers deserve a piece" and not know what piece. Otherwise, your just talking out of your arse based on feelings and not facts, figures, or a modicum of intelligence. What you are describing is greed. Greed of the workers demanding they get more profits from the business owner based on nothing more than entitlement. The workers isn't entitled to shite. His wages are set based on his worth. If he thinks he is entitled to a larger cut of the profits, he should start his own company.
You greedy little socialist terds have no common sense, and operate on 100% jealousy.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:50 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:You people are nuts.
Interest on capital and rent on land are seen as exploitation and theft, respectively.
Envy is a terrible cologne.
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 8:51 am
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:51 am to bstew3006
quote:
I'll always respect the individual that BUILT it. But I'm not going to knock the individual that inherited it. Especially if that individual builds off of it. Now, if that person just collects a check and parties, etc. then I have no respect, but not going to knock them for being born into it.
Right. That's why I don't really fault the Waltons. At least they're still working and active in the company.
quote:
Big Dick Don, got a $1MM loan from daddy.
I laugh at people that think that's all he got
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:51 am to Scruffy
quote:
The government was just loaning it to you.
Yep, this is the root of their ideal... I really do not understand why they think they will be better off "working for the government" than working for a private company...
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:52 am to The Maj
quote:
So, someone that owns land, purchased that land as an investment should expect no return from that investment?
What do you mean by investment? Capital improvements they invest into the land or natural appreciation of the rent value?
No, they should not expect a "return" from the increase in the rent value of the land. An increase that, by definition, happened independent of anything that they did.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:52 am to Powerman
Such a jealous little person you are.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:54 am to The Maj
quote:They honestly believe the government is “pure” and “good”, and it is with a fervor much like a religion.
Yep, this is the root of their ideal... I really do not understand why they think they will be better off "working for the government" than working for a private company...
They believe that this centralized entity would be beholden to the people.
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:56 am to Powerman
quote:
I think where people take issue is the Walton's annual income exceeds the income of every other employee in the company combined. And it's not like it's a small company.
They are the largest single employer in the United States. The labor needed for the goods they provide does not require specialized skills, for the most part. They buy goods, put them on shelves, and resell the goods. It's not a difficult premise.
quote:
And the guy that built it is dead. There is a 0% chance they could have built that on their own.
Yet, the offspring running it, continue to earn profits. Again, if the workers believe they are worth more, for the work output they put in, then either a) go work somewhere else, or b) start your own goods distributor. That's the beauty of the free market system.
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